This thread has been saved from the TTI board. It no longer exists on that board because the administrator said it became corrupted and they had to delete it.
This is the first time I met John. The first time I know of he posted on a forum.
Please do not post on this thread it is here only for archival and historical purpose and for your reading enjoyment. (TimeTravel_0 is John Titor.)
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Time-travel Paradoxes!
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Paul
Member posted 23 October 2000 05:14
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THE PARADOXES…
If you went back in time and visited your granny during her ninth birthday don’t kill her! Because if you put a gun to her head and pull the trigger she could not have given birth to your mum. YOU certainly were never born…
Therefore you could not have killed anyone as you never existed. Now this means your granny couldn’t have been killed by you. She didn’t die nine years old. This permits you to be born.
If you were born could you go back and kill your granny? No, not your real granny. This general idea has been used in Back to the future. Marty nearly stops himself from being born when he prevents his parents from falling in love.
Solving The Problem
1, You simply can’t change history meaning if you go back in time you have no free will(as shown in Twelve Monkeys, Crime Traveler etc. Events will get in your way if you try to kill your granny. YOU CAN’T DO IT.
2, When you so-called change history you’re actually moving up a different branch in time into another universe. The previous universe (where you were born) still exists. When you fire the gun you’re really killing another version of your grandmother.
3, Any actions you make in the so-called past has no affects on the present. It’s a different time-line universe.
The laws true solutions don’t present real time-travel as you go into another world.
Conclusion
We can’t simply use the grandmother paradox to rule out time-travel claiming it causes logical inconsistencies. We need to look at all the possibilities.
How could we build a time machine?
The mathematics of general relativity suggest that under extreme conditions space-time might become so warped it would be possible to travel back in time. There is also the possibility of tunnels in time created by negative mass.
Very long rotating cylinders of matter-proposed by Frank Tipler
Kerr’s spinning blackholes-since most stars spin this becomes worth looking (proposed by Roy Kerr).
Cosmic strings-(as Richard Cott suggested)
Travelling faster than light – would take us back in time(as suggested by solutions to relativity). Wormholes might allow us to outpace light (if you walk through the short cut quicker than light through convential (normal) space.
Tachyons -are sub-atomic particles which always travel faster than light and therefore move back in time constantly. They have not yet been found and remain hypethical.
Contracting Universe- Time might then be running backwards but since everything else also would it’s unsuitable.
Macro-wormholes(Kip Thorne showed how we could use it as a time machine).
time - paradox
Paradoxes
Grandfather paradox
Suppose you could go back in time, lets say several decades and found your grandfather when he was two years old. In his house you could grab a knife and stab him to death. He doesn't get the chance to have children with your grandmother. Therefore either your mother or father doesn't get born. Your parents can't give birth to you because one of them don't exist. You could never have been born and don't even exist. But could your grandfather have been killed by someone who doesn't exist? He must have lived through his childhood. This would allow you to exist if this is the case. Seemingly you can go back in time to commit the murder if you are born but then you would never have been born. And so on and so on. This situation is not consistent with itself. It doesn't make sense and can't possibly happen.
Solutions
1, You simply can't change the past. Time will stop you limiting your freedom while you're in the past from your point of view. This puts the concept of freewill in serious danger especially if you tell people what's going to happen to them in their future. If you believe when you go back in time you are from one possible future from everyone else's point of view they can simply go up any root in time they want.
According to quantum physics Many Worlds theory there are a huge amount of universes where every possibility occurs between them all. In some you're the opposite sex. In some you won the lottery etc.
You might be heading towards the universe you originally came from before you travelled back in time. Everything will happen the way you remember it. But all the people you meet are free to decide what they want to do and enter a different universe. Since it's not possible for you to be there you disappear from their lives. Meeting a time traveller from your future could therefore be very strange.
2, A parallel universe might be created when you seem to change the past. Imagine if time itself was just like a tree. The different branches show different ways events could have happened. Every time we decide to do or not to do something time splits. Even if we are not aware we decided something it have affects. Quantum physics reveals a many worlds theory like this.
Conclusion
Since this parallel universe is not really your past (despite it's first appearance) anything you do there does not affect you. You can prevent a version of yourself from being born because you are not really related to anyone there. They just look very like your family and friends. You are not home! You may be somewhere that looks like the place you live but a different universe in quantum physics is a completely different reality.
3, No matter what you do in what is really a parallel universe you will do back to your previous universe which is not affected by your previous actions. A space-time wormhole could lead you back to your original unaffected universe.
What came out of the wormhole if the ball never went into it?
Another common example of a paradox is a ball that goes through a wormhole connected with a moment in the past. Therefore it comes out of the other space-time wormhole mouth actually before it went in! Then what might happen? If the ball then hits it's younger self out of the way of the mouth then it never goes in. But if the ball never did go in the wormhole then how can it ever come out. The existence of the older version of the ball is destroyed i.e. it never falls back in time. But then this version certainly can't hit the younger version out of the way. So it must go into the wormhole as a collision with it's older self is evidently the only force that could and did stop the ball from entering the wormhole. This of course is unexplainable and is logically inconsistent.
But the situation could happen differently to allow it to become self consistent.
1, What if after the ball comes out of the wormhole at an earlier time it does hit it's previous self but this collision is what makes the ball fall into the mouth in the first place! It hits the other version into the mouth. This would imply that the past or present is affected by the future. In fact in this case the past is dependant on the future.
2, The ball might simply hit it's other self only slightly so the direction of the ball is not altered enough to cause a paradox.
3, The ball might just miss it's younger self.
Nature might protect time and prevent paradoxes. From theories and many stories it's clear that paradoxes cannot happen in the real world.
Other types of paradoxes
In the terminator movies John had something important to tell Sarah. Thank her for her help through the hell. Tell her not to give up or he will never exist.
Who wrote the speech?
John certainly didn't write it. He was told it since he was a kid from Sarah who could remember it. Sarah just recalls what Kyle told her in 1984. Kyle just remembered what John told him to say.
Conclusion
No one wrote it. It exists somehow but not by John, Kyle or Sarah being creative. No one had to write it because it was created by the affect the future on the past had on each other.
If I in 2000 study the history of work done in a private factory and learn about the development of a time machine! Their scientists worked from designs and plans noted in a book (never published)they used. They had no idea how to achieve such technology until they read it.
Then to experiment with temporal(time) paradoxes I am sent back to 1983. The entire building has not even been built as I arrive. Later accidentally I meet one of the scientists and talk to him. When I hear how excited he is I hand him that book which he uses future success. The answers! He is more than willing to read and use the book.
But who came up with the idea of how the time machine is built?
Not any of the scientists as they just followed instructions in that book.
Not me as all I did was hand a scientist a book. Noone actually wrote the book and no one had to work it out.
Is this allowed by physical laws?
Noone really knows...
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Paul Curran from Co Derry, Ireland
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 12 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 23 January 2001).]
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NoTime
unregistered posted 23 October 2000 13:06
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There is no grandfather paradox in the multiverse scenario. In a multiverse, your grandfather's multiple histories included many in which he was not murdered and many in which he was murdered.
Those many histories in which he was murdered included some involving different male or female murderers who killed him. It's possible that you were one of those murderers in one of your previous lifetimes or incarnations.
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SHADOWshadow
unregistered posted 24 October 2000 22:37
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Paradox can't hold a candle to "twinadox". Thats when you time travel back and MARRY your gradndmother and become your own grandpaw. What if you had a twin brother and the THREE of you all show up one day, wich one is the other you? How do you know that there shouldn't be four of you and somebodys missing? Cheesh man!! I'm going to get some sleep, and try not to read this thread next time...er wait a minute, on the other hand.........the me in a paralell reality may infulence me to change my mind.............
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1.21 Jiga-watts
unregistered posted 25 October 2000 16:05
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Let's get away from travelling to the past for a moment. Let's look at what was made popular in Back to the Future pt 2, where Marty sees his son, or his girlfriend sees herself.
It cannot happen! If you left time, you would be considered 'missing', or dead. The truth is, you don't exist from the point in which you lept forward in time. You therefore cannot see yourself, or your son, because you stopped existing at that point in the past where you left.
Is this a proper paradox? Is there any reasoning I am missing that says you can see your future self?
Look forward to responses.
1.21 Jiga-watts
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NoTime
unregistered posted 25 October 2000 16:32
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True. If you leave this time, you will not be here until you return. But, if you are aive in the future as you were alive in the past, then you could visit yourself because you are there. Your present self is different from your past or future self. This definitely applies to the past because you know you lived in the past and if you can go there, then you can visit yourself.
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Crono
Member posted 25 October 2000 17:52
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I think there is two ways to look at this Jiga Watts. The first one is where you can actually change the past so it effects the future. If you were presumed dead in the future, then you could go back to the time right after you left and nothing would have been changed. However if you leave again, it will just be the same as before.
The second one is where you can't change the past, and you'll only be creating a parallel universe. What used to be your future is now your present, and since what used to be your present is now your past, you can't change the past, so you'll still be presumed dead at when you left off. And so you can still go back in the past and live there as usual, you won't be changing the future.
I think that's how those theories go.
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Paul
Member posted 26 October 2000 06:27
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It is very interesting what would happen if you left the present and reached the future. In The Time Machine the time travelers asks about himself and people claim he went missing when he left on his journey through time.
It seems like an BTTF2 Marty was taken away in 1985 so his kids and everything couldn't exist in 2015...
But the existance of his kids might just be evidence that they will later return to 1985 to do all those things! This would imply that everything they are going to do have already been decided!
It became clear the the future is NOT set as Doc claimed the future hasn't been written yet. So how could they travel into what does not exist? Even when Marty went to 1955 he must have been from the future from some people's point of view?
The future they travelled to might just have been one possible future! In the quantum many worlds theory there are an infinite amount of futures where every possibility occurs...
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Paul Curran
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Cocurious
unregistered posted 26 October 2000 08:16
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In response to 1.21 jiga-watts. If you go into the future and see yourself, then by rights you will succeed in whatever you are doing in the future, and make it back to the present. If you don't see yourself, then one could asume that you never made it back to your own time in the present.
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NoTime
unregistered posted 26 October 2000 13:22
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In some probabilities, you traveled to the future and made it back, in others you did not make it back. In some probabilities you are alive in a future time and in others you are not alive. A multiverse contains all possibilities and all combinations of possibilities.
If you can travel to the future, you can meet a future self or not, depending on which probable future you go to.
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NoTime
unregistered posted 26 October 2000 13:27
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...also, in a multiverse containing all possibilities, you can't change anything because whatever changes you try to make are already there as one of the possibilities.
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1.21 Jiga-Watts
unregistered posted 30 October 2000 09:53
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Thank you all for your responses. It's a fascinating discussion, to be sure, and one that seemingly has endless possibilities.
I'm pretty set on the paradox I raised, however. It just doesn't seem possible that you can see your future self.
I'll check in every now and then. Continue in your hypothesizing!
1.21 Jiga-Watts
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 02 November 2000 01:16
TimeTravel_0--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow! Paul is right on the money. I was just about to give up hope on anyone knowing who Tipler or Kerr was on this worldline.
By the way, #2 is the correct answer and the basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year and end in 2034 with the first "time machine" built by GE. Too bad we can't post pictures or I'de show it to you.
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No Problem!!......."Wherever you go, there you are, and I'll be waiting."
p)'i4q4
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[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 19 November 2000).]
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pamela
Member posted 02 November 2000 05:48
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TimeTravel_0-
Guess what? You can put pictures on Doc's board... we would like to see it.
here is the URL: http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
Im sure he would be more than happy to post the picture for you. He is the moderator for the montauk section on this web site.
Look forward to seeing your picture!
thanks,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 02 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 02 November 2000 08:55
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Is there a site where I don't need to register personal information to post pictures?
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pamela
Member posted 02 November 2000 12:26
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Time travel_0-
Iam registered on Doc's site.
you can send it to me and I will post it for you.and if you want you can always set up a new e-mail account and only use it once.
There may be a site where you could post the picture with no info but I personally don't know of any. because of what people would put up with no accountability.
any other info you give will remain confidential . besides your IP address is already logged on this forum when you post. I'll help you out if you want.or you could just e-mail Doc yourself Im sure he would put it up for you without registering.just explain the situation to him. I feel he is very trustworthy. Actually he posted someone elses picture annonymously that claimed he built a time machine. his name was "director". thats it.
sincerely,
pamela
pamela2@raex.com
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Dymenzionz
Moderator posted 02 November 2000 14:53
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What the Hell's a jiga-watt?
(gigawatt)
:-)
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 02 November 2000 18:27
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I'll be happy to send them to you and answer any questions you may have.
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pamela
Member posted 02 November 2000 19:09
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Time Travel_0- "confirming".
Dymenzionz- HI!!!!! Good to see ya back!
sincerely,
pamela
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pamela
Member posted 04 November 2000 05:24
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TimeTravel_0-
your pictures are posted as promised and can be found here:
http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
click on the topic- timelords anonymous
and it is titled: anonymus gravity/time device pictures.
sincerely,
pamela
THANKS DOC!
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 04 November 2000).]
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pamela
Member posted 05 November 2000 03:29
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Questions for timetravel_0 with permission to post.
Pamela:
by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are
in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and
hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a
bright flash of light?
Timetravel_0:
Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the
destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a
small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in
a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.
You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and
it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under.
At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more
depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side
effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.
No bright flash of light is seen. Outside, the vehicle appears to
accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or
close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet
radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.
After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the
unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great
deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a
small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you
bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short
period and a carbon sensor tells us when it's too dangerous. The C204 unit
is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour
at 100% power.
You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or
the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise
from static electricity.
Pamela: 1. what are some of your memories of 2036?
Timetravel_0: I remember 2036 very clearly. It is difficult to describe 2036 in detail
without spending a great deal of time explaining why things are so
different. In 2036, I live in central Florida with my family and I'm
currently stationed at an Army base in Tampa. A world war in 2015 killed
nearly three billion people. The people that survived grew closer together.
Life is centered around the family and then the community. I can not
imagine living even a few hundred miles away from my parents. There is no
large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational
items. Food and livestock is grown and sold locally. People spend much more
time reading and talking together face to face. Religion is taken seriously
and everyone can multiple and divide in the heads.
Pamela: 2. can you send me more of the manual?
Timetravel_0: I will considering it but I do not expect they are worth anything to most
people except as a curiosity.
Pamela: 3.what would happen if you would meet yourself on another world line?
Timetravel_0: It has always surprised me why that concept is so hard for people to imagine
and accept. Nothing would happen. The universe would not end and there are
no paradox problems that threaten existence. Temporal space-time is made up
of every possible quantum state. The Everett Wheeler model is correct. I
have met and/or seen myself twice on different world lines. The first was a
training mission and the second is now. I was born in 1998 so the other
"me" is 2 on this world line. There is a saying where I come from....Every
possible thing that can happen or will happen has already happened
somewhere.
Pamela: 4.How is this world line different from your own?
Timetravel_0: For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also
noticed little things like news events that happen at different times,
football games won by other teams...things like that. I would guess the
temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2
percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence
becomes from my point of view.
Pamela: 5.Is the vehicle a jeep?
Timetravel_0: No...its a 1967 Chevrolet..
Pamela: 6.Are you having normal dreams right now? any out of body experiences?
drawing you to different times? Do you dream you wake up in other places
and other times?
TimeTravel_0: No strange dreams or other experiences. Everything is pretty much the way I
expected it.
Pamela: 7.are you able to control where you go or is it random?
Timetravel_0: Yes, it can be controlled. However, the distortion unit has operational
limits. Imagine your path through time is through a cone. The farther away
from the center of the cone, the more differences you will see in the world
line. The C204 begins to "break away" at about 60 years. This means the
level of confidence drops rapidly after 60 years of travel and the world
line divergence increases. In other words, if I wanted to go back 2000
years and meet Christ, there is a better than average chance I would end up
on a world line where he was never born. The computer units and gravity
sensors "record" your trip and you are quite easily able to return to your
point of origin. I am aware that research is being done on faster units
with more accurate clocks. I imagine that they will be able to go back
farther with a higher degree of divergence confidence.
Pamela: 8. are you feeling drawn back to your own time or are you stable in this
world?
Timetravel_0: I'm not sure what you mean by stable. If you mean mentally...there are many
things that bother me here but being with my parents right now is important
to me. Physically, the only thing really wrong is the number of colds I
get.
Pamela: 9.Are you able to go back to your own world line?
Timetravel_0: Yes.
Pamela: 10.how are you protecting yourself from radiation? it alters DNA if you
dont.
Timetravel_0: I'm not sure what radiation you mean. If you mean from the unit, you can
see it vents X-rays and Gamma radiation out of the rear. As long as you
stay away from that, you should be okay. I keep a radiation detector with
me to check my environment and make sure the unit isn't "leaking".
Pamela: 11.How long would you say that ultraviolet radiation lasts? about 10
seconds?
and when you are in that light can you see anything around you or does the
light kind of "fill up" everything and that is all you can see at the
time?
Timetravel_0: The light bending only lasts a second. Its like driving under a tunnel and
being in total black.
Pamela: 12.Do your people know where you are right now? Can you communicate with
them?
do you have a biological implant?
Timetravel_0: No. They do not know where I am and I can not communicate with them.
Interesting idea though. From their point of view, I will return almost
exactly at the same moment I left. From their viewpoint, I will only have
aged more than expected.
Pamela: 13. after the flash of light is gone are you then in another time? what
does it look like as the new time unfolds? Is it just there? or does it
slowly come into view? does it fade in and out for a time?
Timetravel_0: While the machine is on. Everything is black. When the machine is turned
off, it is the reverse affect. It appears you are driving out from a
bridge. To tell you the truth, I'm usually sleeping when the unit turns off
but yes...it does appear that the world fades in from black.
Pamela: 14. what happens if the device messes up?
Do you end up in space? if it goes offline and shifts ? does a hole open
elsewhere?
Timetravel_0: Good question!!! That one almost never comes up. The hard part of
traveling through time is not the bending of gravity but the plotting of
your course and holding to the basic "position" in your environment. This
is done through a system called VGL (variable gravity lock). Basically, the
unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the "trip"
in pulses. If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself
to the last sample period where the readings were correct. If there is some
sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.
Pamela: 15. what affects are caused on the immediate area where the gravity has
been distorted after you leave it and when you arrive? are there permanent
effects left on the land such as electromagnetic disturbances in that
area?
Timetravel_0: Another good question!!! The only real physical trace is a large chunk of
ground missing from the point of origin and a large pile of dirt at the
destination. The gravity field surrounds a small portion of the earth under
you and takes it along for the ride. There is really no way around this.
Please feel free to post these if you wish.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 05 November 2000 20:08
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Pam, did you ask about going forward in time? Do you need an invite from a future traveler? Where did MR. 0 get the '67 chevy?
Bringing chunks of ground along with you as you casually rewrite the history of entire worlds? I guess thats why Docs' Delorian was fitted with levitation equipment, to make a fast get away from angry property owners having to fill and grade every time he time jumps.
TimeLine 2015; STOP THE PRESSES!! 3 Billion Killed!!! Oh the presses are already stopped? Now if he time traveled *before* the planet was pulverized it would be a bit more believable.
Does Mr. 0 work for GE? Maybe he owns some GE stock. Speaking of stocks we could all use a hot tip from the guy that already knows who's going to be the next Cisco, Coke or Microsoft.
Most importantly why would Mr. 0 want to talk the likes of us?
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Draco2
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 08:59
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Hey TIMETRAVEL_0!!
That's a very interesting experience you are describing!! I have one question for you, and that is in regards to the climactic of the earth in 2034, had the polar ice caps melted, as they are now doing at an accelorated rate in this current time.
Sincerely, Draco
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 09:04
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In response to Shadow:
Perhaps it’s a bit easier to understand why time travelers do not revel themselves.
Yes, you can travel forward in time. No, you do not need an “invite” from the future. I first saw the car in 2036. The idea was to find a vehicle that would not draw too much attention for the time period. Unfortunately, there were not very many suitable vehicles around in 2036 and I sold the car when I arrived in 2000.
You do not rewrite history. I can only affect what happens here just as easily as you can. Why do people in this time period worry so much about time traveler’s destroying their world line when they have no problem doing it themselves every day?
My goal is not to be believed. Most people do not take news of the war very well but I find that everyone believes it’s inevitable. Even in your own history, are not great inventions and discoveries made during a time of war in your effort to kill and main in new and more efficient ways?
No, I do not work for GE or any other company. Are “stock tips” really the first thing you want to know about in the future? As a representative of your time period, do you realize what that says about you? You should probably know that this time is not remembered for its selflessness, charity or ability to work together.
Why would I want to talk to you? Why don’t you believe you have something interesting or worthwhile to say to someone in the future?
Mr. “O”
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 09:08
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To Draco:
No, the ice caps are not melting any faster than they are now. There is also far less smog and industrial waste in 2036.
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Draco2
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 10:28
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Hey TimeTravel_0!!!
So then what you're saying is that our current computer models are wrong about Glacial and Polar Ice Cap melting, even though they are going by our current emmisions rate and projected emmisions of the growth of fossil fuels consumption?? While Global Warming is factually happening and even if we stopped burning fossil fuels today and stopped destroying the rain forests today, the impact that is already altered our planetary climate would not stop today as the ball is already rolling. The toxins in the ozone layer and the earths lessening inability to creat oxygen, due to the catastrophic daily destruction of the rain forests that give us most of our oxygen, would take longer than beyond the year 2036 to repair itself, even with our help. I find it amazing that if you throw a WWIII into the equation, one devistating enough to cause the death of 3 Billion people, would not add to the excelloration of Global Warming and raise the sea level to the point where in 2036 most of Florida will be underwater. Help me understand what reversed this impending climatic catastrophy..
Sincerely, Draco
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Janus
Member posted 06 November 2000 14:01
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Ok, Mr. 0 . First things: you have to realize that people will be hostile toward you when you make such a big claim. What reason have we to believe you? But, enough thought experiments occur here anyways, so...
I don't think any era in history has been particularly noted for its compassion or selflessness. Why should we be any different?
Ok, so why not give us stock tips? You said you weren't worried about polluting the timeline, right?
As for rewriting history, the normal objection is causality. But, if you use multiple-universe theory, then it's all good. My question is, how do you get back to your proper universe - you said you're very close to your family - how come another jump wouldn't just send you into some third, different universe?
And, finally: what happens if you go back in time to a time when, right where you were standing, there was a giant cement block? Do you just appear inside of it and die? Or do you get pushed away?
Thanks,
Janus.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 16:43
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To Draco:
You asked about the North Polar ice pack. I never said the environment wasn't a problem. Doesn't water expand when it freezes? If the polar ice cap melted, wouldn't sea level go down? I don't know if there's enough ice for this to make a difference and I'm not an expert on global warming.
Mr. "0"
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 November 2000 17:26
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To Janus:
Yes, I realize people become hostile. I don’t expect anyone to believe me and I have nothing to sell. I take no offense by it. Just out of curiosity, if you were a time traveler, what do you think it would take to get people to believe you?
I suppose we could agree that no particular era in history is famous for its development of humanity but just once I would like to hear questions like, “What is family life like in the future? How does society deal with poverty? Is AIDS, abortion and drug use still a problem?”
Why don’t I give you a stock tip? The money you make would dilute the intelligence and forethought that a smart person had in picking the stock all by themselves. If I told you how to get rich, I would be taking money from them and giving it to you.
Getting back to my “proper” universe is tricky but possible. Yes, another jump would take me to a different family.
Cement block…good question. The hard part of traveling to other world lines is just that. There is a system of clocks and gravity sensors that sample the environment before dropping out. Its called VGL, (variable gravity lock). If a cement block were there, the machine would “backtrack” until it sensed relative congruity to the original gravity sample. A great deal of time and effort goes into picking just the right spot since you can not physically move during a displacement.
Mr. “0”
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pamela
Member posted 06 November 2000 22:13
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posted with permission:
TimeTravel_0-
Greetings:
Please keep in mind a couple of points as I answer your questions. First, Iam not a physicist. "Time travel" is only a tool that allowed me to do my
job 1975. Most airline pilots are probably not aerospace engineers.
Second, let me give you an example of the position we are in. Imagine you
live in the year 1900 and a "time traveler" attempts to explain how a jet
engine works. Even though the invention of the airplane is only a decade inthe future, he would have to find some frame of reference to explain the
basics of flight. Then, he would have to outline the mechanics of how the
engine works. As amazing as it would sound, the jet would be invented about thirty years later.
Pamela: 1. can you explain to me in detail the basic physics and mathematics behind how the machine operates? and exactly how it distorts gravity.
Timetravel_0: 1) Time travel is achieved by altering gravity. This concept is already proven by atomic clock experiments. The closer an observer is to a gravity source (high mass), the slower time passes for them. Traveling at high speeds mimics this effect which = the twin paradox of faster than light travel. However, this type of gravity manipulation is not sufficient to alter your world line.
The basic math to alter world lines exists right now. Tipler first
described a working "time machine" through his theory of massive rotating
spheres. I apologize for the web site but it was the only one I could find
quickly.
http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Station/5763/time.html
Certain types of black holes also exhibit the "time travel" abilities of
Tipler cylinders. Kerr was one of the first to describe the dual event
horizons of a rotating black hole. As with Tipler's cylinders, it was
possible to travel on a "time-like" trip through a Kerr black hole and end
up in a different world line without being squished by the gravity of the
singularity.
http://www.physics.fsu.edu/courses/fall98/ast1002/section4/blackholes/fig11-13/fig11-132.htm
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html
http://www.leonllo.freeservers.com/blackworm.html
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~cramer/RelViz/text/geom_web/node4.html
(deleted).......................................................
The mass and gravitational field of a microsingularity can then be
manipulated by "injecting" electrons onto its surface. By rotating two
electric microsigularities at high speed, it is possible to create and
modify a local gravity sinusoid that replicates the affects of a Kerr black
hole.
For those asking how come a microsingularity doesn't swallow the Earth or
want to know details about the size, stability, mass, temperature and
resulting Hawking radiation from such a thing.. those details I must keep to myself.
Pamela: 2. can you travel to the future as well as the past? my understanding of the machine is the trip is recorded so you can get back to your original time line but what about a future beyond your time line are you able to access it as well?
or does it have to be open by a future chrononaunt?
Timetravel_0: Yes, you can travel into the future and it takes less energy than going into the past.
Pamela: 3.I dont see the computer in the device. is it the hand held device on the side of the larger device? If so what kind of power supply does the
computer work off of is it the battery as well or some type of crystal?
Timetravel_0: The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus.
There are actually three computers linked together that take the same
signals from the gravity sensors and clocks. They use a Borda error
correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL
system.
Pamela:4.Is your DNA remaining stable in this world or does it shift? does time traveling affect your body or aura or spirit in any way you know of?
timetravel_o: 4) I am not aware of any physical change to my DNA or "aura". I do however seem to be more susceptible to colds.
Pamela: 5. when you go back to the future will we remember you?
Time travel_0: Yes, you will remember me if you want to. World lines do not change that way and I will only become a insignificant part of your history.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 06 November 2000).]
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Fast
Member posted 07 November 2000 15:42
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mm..General Electric built a time machine for the government?
or are time machines so common in the future that there makes and models are as commonly varied as our age's car models..?
Fast Out
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 07 November 2000 17:18
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I would equate the "future" GM distortion units to their current jet engines. The first one worked great but they can always make it better.
The C204 unit uses 4 cesium clocks. The C206 uses 6 cesium clocks but they use an optical system to check the oscillation frequency. This makes the world line divergance confidence much higher.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 07 November 2000 21:01
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Time Traveler-0
If you could bring some material thing back to your time in 2036 what would it be?
Could I travel to a future that was, say 0.5 seconds ahead of now? In the same vien, if you just happened to arrive at "the year 2000" a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just 'landed soonby"? In other words, what makes this time line be 'now' at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?
As far as how wonderfull your people are in the time after the war I'm very happy for you. Maybe they succeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3billion people. Something that could not be done with the nuclear sledge hammer. Perhaps the enemy released a killer virus that zeros in on only those who carried the Idiot gene?
2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street adress then? I'll stop in and swap tales from days of old....assuming I live that long.
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pamela
Member posted 07 November 2000 21:23
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what will the year 2036 be like?
pamela: 1.I will ask you about your environment then and I want to know about the family life and also about your religion. what religion has survived? Do you believe in Jesus Christ or someone else. Do people still pray to God? Do you still have churches?
timetravel_0: Yes I believe in Jesus Christ and we pray to God in churches. There aresome differences you may be interested in. Religion is a major part ofpeoples life in 2036. Pain and change tend to bring people together andcloser to God. However, religion is far more personal than it is now.
There are no huge, centralized religions and people talk openly about theirbeliefs. It might also interest you to know that the day of worship is
Saturday, the day God meant to be the Sabbath and the 10 commandments have
been restored to the "10" that God gave us.
pamela: 2. what kind of jobs do people do and do they still work long hours? whats the majority of job types in the future?
timetravel_0: Life is much more rural in the future but "high" technology is used to communicate and travel. People raise a great deal of their own food and do more "farm" work. Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company
that maintains "wireless" internet nodes.
pamela: 3.what is a typical day like for someone in your time? do you still havethe internet? has it advanced to all virtual reality yet?
what type of diseases are you currently dealing with? are there still advances in science?
timetravel_0: A typical day...hmmm. Life has changed so much over my lifetime that it's hard to pin down a "normal" day. When I was 13, I was a soldier. As a teenager, I helped my dad haul cargo. I went to college when I was 31 and I was recruited to "time travel" shortly after that. Again...I suppose an average day in 2036 is like an average day on the farm.
pamela: 4.Is there still a post office? how do you receive messages from one
another? you said most people talk face to face.
timetravel-0: Yes...there is a post office. The internet is still alive and well in the future. People spend more time talking because life is more centered around the community. I've noticed the same type of effect here when the power goes off. People tend to come out of their homes and actually spend time with their neighbors. There is a lot more personal trust and less paranoia.
pamela: 5.what type of houseing do you live in?
timetravel_0: When I'm with my parents, I live in a community made up of "tree houses" on a large river in Florida. The river floods sometimes and we have access to the Gulf. Most of our neighbors make a living off the sea or in moving cargo by boat.
pamela: 6.what started the war? and who fought in it? who won?what countries were destroyed and what survived?
timetravel_0: Wow...that's a big question. There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.
pamela: 7.did you ever discover what aliens were and ufos?
timetravel_0: No new information there. I find that an interesting subject myself. Personally, I think "UFOs" might be time travelers with very sophisticated distortion units. But that might be a bit wacky.
pamela: 8. what type of environmental problems do you know of that exist? do you have pure water to drink? are you mostly vegetarian-seems how most people are going that way today.
timetravel_0: One of the biggest reasons why food production is localized is because the environment is so screwed up with disease and radiation. We are making huge strides in getting it cleaned up. Water is produced on a community level and we do eat meat..that we raise ourselves.
pamela: 9. are they still messing around with genetics? and altering the food and animals?
timetravel_0: Yes...genetic engineering is used but it's like any other technology. It can be good and bad. One thing we did not do was create more hybrid seeds. What are people thinking???
pamela:10.what do you believe about life after death?
timetravel_0: I am a Christian Agnostic. I do not believe faith alone is enough to get us back to God. I'm not sure what happens when we die but I'm pretty sure it's not a walk in the park.
pamela: 11. do you have an advances in spacetravel or exploration?
timetravel_0: No. We are working on it.
pamela: 12. what new inventions do we have to look forward to?
timetravel_0: Hmmm....I hesitate to answer but I'll give a bit. Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solar cells are big deals. Computer technology and software gets MUCH better.
pamela: 13. what brings you the greatest joy on Earth? what are some things you and others do for entertainment and fun?
timetravel_0: I like this question. My greatest joy is sailing. For fun, I enjoy swimming, playing cards, reading, playing games on the net and talking with people who live in other countries. As a community, we celebrate much more and have bon fires and dances. My hobby is sorting through old magazines and videos of life before the war.
pamela: 14. what are your schools and universities like?
timetravel_0: After the war, early new communities gathered around the current Universities. That's where the libraries were. I went to school at Fort UF which is now called the University of Florida. Not too much is different except the military is large part of people's life and we spend a great deal of time in the fields and farms at the "University" or Fort.
pamela: 15. what are some of your fondest memories growing up? what kind of
cameras do you have now to take pictures of the family? did they ever invent a hologram camera?
timetravel_0: Most of my memories growing up are not fond. Life was very hard. Simple things make me happy like hugging my mother and father. Yes, we have cameras. More digital. Film is used like painting is today. No hologram camera though.
pamela: 16. do you still have telephones? what is your major source of energy that you use? solar power? electricity? have you discovered new energies.
timetravel_0: Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized. It amazes me how much power is wasted now. Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.
pamela: 17. how do you take care of your elderly? and your poor and your orphans? and the ones who cannot work?
timetravel_0: The elderly are highly revered and looked after on a community level. So are orphans. There is always something people can do now matter what. The idea of avoiding work is looked down on. Everyone pulls together to keep the COMMUNITY strong.
pamela: 18. what is the dress style of the time what do you wear on your bodies as a style?
timetravel_0: Hats are more common in the future and flashy colors are less common. Dress is much more functional and we "dress up" when ever we get a chance. I have noticed that no one in this time dresses for occasions even when they have the clothes. Why do people wear shorts to church?
pamela: 19. do people wear their hair differently than we do?every generation has a different style what is the style of your time? what is popular for kids to wear? for adults to wear?
timetravel-0: We do not spend nearly the amount of time on our hair as people do now. Women like to wear their hair longer and men have it much shorter. Both sexes shave it all off when they're in active military service.
pamela: 20. are surgeries mostly performed by lasars? or were there new
technologies developed?
timetravel_o: Far less medical treatment in the future even though its more advanced. People die when they now its time to die. No lasers. Genetic medicine and cloning organs are the obvious new techs in the future.
pamela: 21. do you still have the current form of government, presidents and vice presidents like we do?
timetravel_0: No. The Constitution was changed after the war. We have 5 presidents that are voted in and out on different term periods. The vice president is the president of the senate and they are voted separately.
pamela: 22. how do you get from one place to another with not many cars around.do you teleport from one place to another?
timetravel_0: We have cars...just not a whole bunch of them. There is public transportation from city to city.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 07 November 2000 22:18
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If I could bring some material thing back to your time from 2036...it would be a copy of the new US Constitution.
Yes, you could travel to a future that was 0.5 seconds ahead of now but not with my machine. The C204 uses the second as the basic unit of measure. The C206 may be capable of .05 sec.
(In the same vien, if you just happened to arrive at "the year 2000" a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just 'landed soonby"?)
No "you" would not. But the "you" on that world line would.
(In other words, what makes this time line be 'now' at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?)
It is believed there are some sort of measurable quantum differences in world lines. I am not an expert on that so I can offer little information.
(As far as how wonderfull your people are in the time after the war I'm very happy for you. Maybe they succeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3billion people.)
Yes, we did.
(2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street adress then? I'll stop in and swap tales from days of old....assuming I live that long.)
You would be welcome in my home.
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pamela
Member posted 08 November 2000 11:47
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Timetravel_0-
1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?
2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?
3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?
4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?
5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?
6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 08 November 2000 22:27
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(1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?)
In 2036, a great deal of effort is going into "repairing" our environment. I was sent to 1975 to get a computer system and take it back to 2036. Time travel is not a secret in 2036 and I expect it will become more common.
(2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?)
Right now, its used to get information or "items" that would be helpful in getting a post WWIII world back to a normal condition. There are 7 other time travelers in my unit.
(3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?)
Right now, most of our practical missions are from 1960 to 1980. There is a great deal of research into later and future periods but the farther you go, the lower the divergence confidence of the world line.
(4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?)
Yes.
(5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?)
It's a 1987 4WD. The vehicle needs a strong suspension system to handle the weight of the distortion unit.
(6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?)
Yes.
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Curious
unregistered posted 09 November 2000 12:41
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Timetravel_0, I have a couple of tech questions. If you change "vehical" do you have to re-calibrate the unit? (Does mass effect the field strength or power level needed to travel?) What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity? (tri-coil, or quadrature coil, etc.) Can your unit also dimensionally travel? (can it move laterally in time as well as forward/reverse)
Curious
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Shadow
unregistered posted 09 November 2000 09:35
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To TimeTravel_0
Have you seen the movies 'Terminator' and 'Terminater 2'? We have a lot of good movies in this time but it is hard to pick them out from the huge piles of "trash movies".
Movies are contemporary liturature.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 09 November 2000 11:01
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TT_0,
If your conveyence is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.
Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?
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Fast
Member posted 11 November 2000 12:34
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TT0-
if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here?
treason!
a VW Bus would make a fine time machine
Fast Out
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:02
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 2)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Fast
Member posted 11 November 2000 12:41
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to TT0:
"--The C204 unit
is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour
at 100% power.
--" 10 years an hour?
from 2036 wouldnt that take three+ hours??
how could you survive with merly the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle's field??
Fast Out
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 18:46
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To Curious:
(If you change "vehical" do you have to re-calibrate the unit?)
Yes. But its a function of the VGL system. A gravity baseline is taken and rechecked every thime the unit is used. A new vehicle would alter the gravity signature.
(What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity?)
I am not a phycist so I can not answer that to your level of sophistication. The singularities are held in an enclosed magnetic field.
(Can your unit also dimensionally travel?)
No. However, the longer the unit is on past a safe divergance confidence, the "stranger" the world line becomes. The unit I have is safe to about 1% for every sixty years at max power.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 18:56
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TO Shadow:
(Have you seen the movies 'Terminator' and 'Terminater 2'?)
Yes. I've seen those movies. Very entertaining.
(If your conveyence is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.)
My goal was to reach a certain date and time which is converted into seconds for the computer to make its calculations. I do not pick the second. Its more important to have a low divergance confidence number.
(Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?)
I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 19:07
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To Fast:
(if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here?
treason!)
Why would it be treason?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 19:11
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To Fast Out:
(10 years an hour? from 2036 wouldnt that take three+ hours?? how could you survive with merly the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle's field??)
Yes...that's about right but my initial trip was to 1975, not 2000. I guess its a question of how many technical details you really want or you feel I'm making up. We do take addtional 02 and the air pocket is a bit larger than you might think.
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Curious
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 20:09
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Timetravel_O I am surprised they went with the VGL system over the "time lock" system. It must be more accurate as far as timeline devergance. No direct lateral travel huh? That means some places are not easily accessable.(there is a safe place to hide, LOL) One last question, Can anybody operate the 204 unit? Or is it safe guarded by a "key of some kind? Thanks for answering. Yes, you would be welcome at my home.
Curious
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Fast
Member posted 11 November 2000 20:28
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TT0:
the chinese were said to threaten death by torture to those who gave away the secret of silk making...why not time travel also?
i now understand the oxygen part,thought i found a slip in your trip(to coin a phrase) to our(or 1975...) time...
why is it you traveled to 1975 anyway??
Fast Out
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Searcher of Truth
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 13:22
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Time travel_0,
I followed the link to your pictures and if time travel is not a secret in your "time" then why do the top of your pictures say "restricted file"??
restricted file means LIMITED TO AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY.
Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this "time".
what is your true purpose for posting assumingly "restricted" government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?
Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?
Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?
-SOT
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Curious
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 14:06
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To Seeker of Truth. The chances of one of us building a C204 are slim to none. (and Slim's dead) Who's to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergance factor is so low, everbody will forget about this in a short time. I wouldn't worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory...
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41
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(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this "time".)
Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don’t care what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not expect people to believe them.
(what is your true purpose for posting assumingly "restricted" government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?)
The restricted nature of the documents I posted refers to the departmentalized nature of the technical information. The manual is supposed to remain with the unit. The current F-16 fighter jet probably has an operations manual. All the information in it is not secret but no one wants it to “walk” away from the plane.
(Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?)
I am here for personal reasons. For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. Does that seem more likely now? Actually it’s quite amazing to see what’s happening. I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months but to see it unfold is very interesting. Before I leave, I’ll try and post my report.
I am curious… will anyone be upset if Florida’s votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current “confusion”?
(Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?)
Yes.
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Curious
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 17:22
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Timetravel_0, People have been "warned" of the upcoming events (or high probability of) for sometime. The date seems to move up and down the timeline a little, but the out come seems to be the same. Some of the "new age crackpots(?)" have already said this. A few have even given an estimate of when (some have been close to the year you stated). From what I understand, it is coinciding with a natural disaster (or cosmic event). I hope not be around then. Have a safe trip. Good luck.
Curious
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Pardon my intrusion on your post, I thought it would be more suitable to include the following information here, as it is synonymous with your post, and placing it at the end of this thread where the conversation has taken a different direction altogether would not be in sync with the current flow of thought.
p)'i4q4-----------------
Flood forthcoming
Monday, November 27 2000 @ 03:26 AM EST
Contributed by: Porfiry
Global warming could be on the verge of triggering a rise in sea levels that would flood huge swathes of the Earth's most densely populated regions, says an unpublished report from the world's top climate scientists. Caused in large part by the melting of Greenland's ice sheet, this process would take a thousand years or more but would be "irreversible" once under way.
The report, due to be published next May by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), is being read by the world's governments. The final draft seen by New Scientist suggests that dozens of the countries meeting this week to agree on global warming limits through the Kyoto Protocol may face being wiped off the world map.
Four years ago, the IPCC forecast that sea levels could rise by half a metre in this century and by a maximum of between 1.5 and 3 metres over the coming 500 years. The new assessment suggests an eventual rise of 7 to 13 metres is more likely. This is enough to drown immense areas of land and many major cities. These rises will occur even if governments succeed in halting global warming within the next few decades, the report says.
Two factors are causing the rise: the slow spread of heat to the ocean depths and the destabilising of major ice sheets. It will take about a thousand years for warming in the atmosphere to reach the bottom of the oceans. The resulting thermal expansion "would continue to raise sea levels for many centuries after stabilisation of greenhouse gas concentrations". Even if global warming is halted within a century, thermal expansion will eventually raise the oceans by between 0.5 and 4 metres.
Even more alarming is the fate of the ice that covers Greenland. Among all of the world's ice sheets, this is now thought to be "the most vulnerable to climatic warming". It contains enough snow and ice to raise sea levels by about 7 metres if it melts. And this looks increasingly likely to happen.
Models show that after any warming above 2.7 °C, "the Greenland ice sheet eventually disappears". Nearly all predictions show Greenland warming more than this, says the report, and the faster the warming, the faster the melting. An extra 5.5 °C would cause sea levels to rise by 3 metres over a thousand years. An 8 °C warming would cause a 6-metre rise in sea levels in the same time.
The report's authors are not allowed to discuss their findings until publication. But Jonathan Gregory of Britain's Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Bracknell, who co-authored the chapter on sea level, told New Scientist recently that once under way, the disintegration of the Greenland ice sheet would be "irreversible this side of a new ice age".
The fate of the West Antarctic ice sheet, which is perched on submerged islands, remains controversial, says the report. If it melted, it would raise sea levels by a further 6 metres. Some experts quoted in the report predict that the sheet could entirely disappear within 700 years. Others, supported by the authors, expect that the sheet will contribute "no more than 3 metres" to sea level in that time.
If sea levels were 10 metres higher than today by the year 3000, it would cause the inundation of a total area larger than the US, with a population of more than a billion people and most of the world's most fertile farmland.
Fred Pearce
From New Scientist magazine, 25 November 2000.
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 27 November 2000).]
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pamela
Member posted 12 November 2000 17:44
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TimeTravel_0-
is there some reason you are not responding to any of my e-mails lately?
I have deleted all of your e-mails from my computer to protect you.noone will ever know your e-mail address. that is my promise to you.
if your not going to reply to me can you just answer me one question....was that you I seen? or you can e-mail me if you still can.
sincerely,
pamela
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pamela
Member posted 12 November 2000 20:53
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timetravel_0-
OK.
your friend,
pamela
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daViper
unregistered posted 13 November 2000 23:04
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Contrary to popular belief, and certain speculations here, the plain simple fact is, ther ARE no paradoxes. There never have been and there never will be. The term itself is an oxymoron and an invention of the intellect of the human mind, in search of creative thought and outright fantasy. The Universe exists without either the need for, or possibility of them.
Once one comes to this simple realization, one can then put the concept of "Time Travel" in IT'S proper perspective. Namely, that as is usually thought of, it doesn't exist. Never has, never will. For the simple reason that our invented concept of time itself is fundamentally flawed. Time is not an entity. It is a unit of measurement invented by man, to define the interval between cause and effect. Like Meter. Or Yard. Or Foot. Or pound. Can we "Meter" travel? or "Foot" travel? Or perhaps "Acre" travel? Gets silly doesn't it. Why does anyone think you can actually "Time" travel?
Interesting that the so called "Twins Paradox" was not discussed in depth here, but then it's really not a paradox at all. It is only beleived to BE one by people who do not understand the simple laws of physics and the Theory of relativity.
If anyone is interested, I can show you how it CANNOT be a paradox. Unless you already know. In which case you wouldn't be here speculating on the "how" of something that doesn't exist in the first place.
It isn't that Time Travel is not possible, it's that there is NO SUCH THING in the first place. Never has been. Never will be. Like the Gods of MT. Olympus. Or the Fire Breathing Dragons of old. And Pegasus. Or the Earth as the Center of the Universe. It's mythology. Based on INNOCENT ignorance. It's a skewed concept created by a lack of understanding of the fundamental Theories of relativity (General and Special), in the first place.
And it doesn't require "Multiple" Universes to solve. If there are multiple universes, than there MUST be an INFINITE number of them. In which case, all things that have ever happened, will happen, are happening Now. If THAT'S the case, what makes anyone think they have anything resembling free will at all?
Alas, I'm afrid even THIS attempt to resolve the so called "paradoxes" of Time Travel is also a pursuit in search of what is a non-existant problem in the first place. Another lapse into inventing a new mythology.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 13 November 2000 23:24
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TimeTravel_0
Checked out the picture and documents (Pamala?) posted. Your '67 Chev looks remarkably new.......hmmmm
If the manual is leggit and thats a real working time machine in your front seat, the OBVIOUS conclusion, if not the correct conclusion, is that you are either in the employ of the US Army or you stole the friggen thing. I hardly think you picked it up for 20 bucks at the surplus store.
Looks like you've got a little baby field model there, the owners of which would surely have bigger and badder ones to come and collect it with. But you would know all about that. What you might not know is that the people who actually run things around now, will snatch you right out of your shoes at the first possible instant they get wind of you and your ah....... thing.
The one thing that you are REALLY REALLY NOT supposed to do is show up with something that might be percieved to be "dangerous". You had better hide real good or get lost, one.
Been nice 'talking' to ya. Why not just spill the *entire* pan of beans before you split? Anything to piss off the rich folks, I say.
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Janus
Member posted 14 November 2000 15:25
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I hope 'Mr. 0' is still there...
I'd like to believe you. What I need is one more prediction - you've predicted an American civil war in 2005; in order to fully believe you, I need one more unambiguous prediction like that. Something like, maybe, who will win the 100m in Salt Lake City. Really, anything like that, if I see two predictions like that come true you will have my unwavering belief. I'm a rationalist but not an idiot - the problem with most people who claim to time travel is that they have no evidence to back it up. What I ask for would be enough evidence for me, and probably most people.
[This message has been edited by Janus (edited 14 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 13:56
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Mr. DaViper,
A broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:12
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To: Shadow
If this shows up twice, I apologize.
(Your '67 Chev looks remarkably new.......hmmmm)
Thanks. I sold it when I arrived here. It attracted a great deal of attention. Perhaps that's why it was still around in 2036.
(...you are either in the employ of the US Army...)
More or less correct.
(Looks like you've got a little baby field model there, the owners of which would surely have bigger and badder ones to come and collect it with.)
Why would they come looking for me? I'm expected back but I will only have been gone a few seconds from their point of view.
(What you might not know is that the people who actually run things around now, will snatch you right out of your shoes at the first possible instant they get wind of you and your ah....... thing.)
Stupidity and greed are fairly predictable for a period of time.
(The one thing that you are REALLY REALLY NOT supposed to do is show up with something that might be percieved to be "dangerous".)
Have you considered that your society might be better off if half of you were dead?
(Why not just spill the *entire* pan of beans before you split? Anything to piss off the rich folks, I say.)
I'm thinking about it. I'm waiting for my family to buy up all the good stuff cheap first...(joke).
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:20
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To Janus:
(I'd like to believe you. What I need is one more prediction - you've predicted an American civil war in 2005; in order to fully believe you, I need one more unambiguous prediction like that.)
I appreciate the position you are in but you must realize that I am not affected in the least if you believe me or not.
(Something like, maybe, who will win the 100m in Salt Lake City.)
Off the top of your head, can you tell me if it rained in Atlanta this time last year? Do you think time travelers carry a sports reffrence with them?
(Really, anything like that, if I see two predictions like that come true you will have my unwavering belief.)
It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:33
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To: Curious
(One last question, Can anybody operate the 204 unit? Or is it safe guarded by a "key of some kind? Thanks for answering. Yes, you would be welcome at my home.)
The unit has two security systems to protect it from "most" people. One, it has a code that must be entered correctly. Second, and probably more effective now, the unit can not be used by anyone who can't add and subtract.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:41
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To Fast:
(i now understand the oxygen part,thought i found a slip in your trip(to coin a phrase) to our(or 1975...) time... why is it you traveled to 1975 anyway??)
The first "leg" of my trip was from 2036 to 1975. After two VGL checks, the divergance was estimated at about 2.5% (from my 2036). I was "sent" to get an IBM computer system called the 5100. It was one the first portable computers made and it has the ability to read the older IBM programming langages in addition to APL and Basic. We need they system to "debug" various lagacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 20:29
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For totally selfish reasons I would like to know how one would communicate across time periods? Think of the grief one could save themselves by simply by calling yourself at 6AM from 6PM and getting the lowdown on the days pitfalls.
It is tough for me to visualize how, from our perspective, the future is frozen solid such that you could knock around here for a week or two and yet scarcely a blink of an eye has passed in 2036.
If you want to get peoples attention, it seemes to me that a pocket full of real US currency and coins dated 2001 and up would cause a stir. It could be used as a standard test to see who is braindead and who can add 2+2.
You speak of 1 & 2 % "divergence" as being unimportant. I don't get it. Like for example if OUR IBM5100 is 1% different than the code you have to run on it, it ain't gonna work right. One percent in the FL vote count would be important. If I could see only 99% of the cars on the road it would be important to me. So, what exactly is X% divergent, and why is it not a major problem?
Janus is a Scientist. Don't mess with him!
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Shadow
unregistered posted 15 November 2000 21:39
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Oh, sorry Janus, forget I said that. I must have gotten your post mixed up with somebody eleses.
To TimeTravler_0
The trouble with having the "half the population dead" is that before the fact, one cannot tell to which half ones' self belongs. The politics of who gets thrown out of the lifeboat and who gets to stay is not topic for polite conversation. So lets ask the question in the affirmative. " What does one have to do in order to stay on the lifeboat?"
I don't immagine you have much a fondness for the CJD (mad cow) prion. Any advise on how to defeat or avoid this plauge?
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mokrie dela
Member posted 16 November 2000 12:35
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_0 ---Just popped in for a minute. If your on the level could you be so kind as to drop me off in 1880. No, I'm not kidding. If you pick up hitch hikers I'd really like a ride. Also, I've missed you Pamela and Time and the ever evasive Doc.
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pamela
Member posted 16 November 2000 12:43
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Mokrie!!!!!!!
{{{{{HUG}}}}}}
I missed you to. I was wondering what world you fell into ( heheheh.)
hey now...only so many of us can fit into the 4x4! I asked first! I get the front seat!!!! heheh.
Doc if you are out there somewhere you need to respond! we are worried about you. alot of people have written you and you have not responded. your friends care about you!
sincerely,
pamela
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daViper
unregistered posted 16 November 2000 16:42
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Shadow:
There is only ever one "time period" to communicate in. This one. The "now".
In the classic so called "twins paradox", the two are always in the same time line.
Visualize the traveling twin doing this travel always in sight of Earth. Orbiting the Sun at near the spped of light. He is always visible from Earth via telescope and radio. Although there will be some doppler shifting in his image and radio signals, communication is nevertheless still possible. Just difficult. He is traveling for what seems to be his Earth bound twin's span of 50 years. During his voyage, he ALSO counts the Earth rotating around the Sun 50 times! Yup. That's the way it works. Yet when he finally lands back on Earth, he has aged only 5 years! Relativity has slowed his BIOLOGICAL clock, relative to his twin. Not time itself. Just like it slows the atomic clock on the moving jet plane, relative to the one left on the ground. Gravity has little or nothing to do with it. It is the difference in RELATIVE velocity that produces what gets measured as time dilation. The same is tru for the twins. Actually, neither twin left the other's time line. Both were always in the same one. Both counted 50 revolutions of the Earth around the Sun, but the travelers biological CLOCK ran slower. That's all.
There is no paradox. And communiction across "time periods" is only ever communication across the same time period.
Where I am now, it's 11:30 AM. But in Japan, it's 4:30 TOMMORROW MORNING. But me and the Japanese are still in the same time line, time period (in the greater sense), and can communicate with each other just fine.
The past has gone by. The future hasn't happened yet. And all the near light speed travel or power sources that alter matter can't change that. It's a rather fundamental law of the universe.
Even Einstein only ever said time running backwards during faster than light travel, MIGHT be possible. He NEVER said for sure that it was true or for certain WOULD occur. And even withdrew further and further from this original position as he got older.
In the pure scientific sense, we need to always be vigilant as to the difference in what constitutes hypothesis, and what constitutes theory.
Good science always tries to DISPROVE hypothesis. Not prove it. Failure to DIS-prove it is what then results in what becomes evolving theory. And still only theory at that.
Enjoy.
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pamela
Member posted 16 November 2000 23:33
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DaViper....biological clock ran slower?
Can you explain this concept further?
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 17 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 17 November 2000 09:34
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It is thought that being close to a gravitational field has a biological effect on all matter including cells. The effect is to slow the movement of electrons in the orbits of their nucleus which thus slows the mechanical and bilological functions of the observer close to the gravity.
Thus the passing of time is a local phenomenon depending on how close you are to a gravitational source.
This is one example of a theory involving "time shells" progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influencial the time shells around it (like an onion). Another offshoot of this theory is that kinetic energy is actually the conversion of stored energy in the atom as it passes through time shells in a gravitational field.
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pamela
Member posted 17 November 2000 12:01
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Time travel_0-
Would this serve a purpose to put cloned or donated organs in a feild to keep it as fresh and unaged as possible until ready to transplant into the new recepient patient?
In response to your last e-mail...
you never know what my future will hold.
maybe I'll be visiting YOU. (maybe in one of those advanced distortion units.)
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Shadow
unregistered posted 17 November 2000 19:12
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To daViper
Here's the way I see it if I want to "foot travel or acre travel" or even frothing at the mouth mad dog banana split travel then I will just get on with it. I don't need you to tell me I can't. Heck if I want to pretend that I'm Superman and fly around the sun 50 times to save Lois Lane........oh excuse me THAT ONE was YOUR idea.
We got a guy on here whom I believe to be an actual time traveler, somebody that knows about gravic shells. artificial singularities, computers and the history of the next 36 years. Somebody who has "been there done that" and I don't really want to hear you spouting off about what you learned in 6th grade science class. I took the same class 35 years ago. Here is a news flash for you; Einstien was out of date 60 years ago.
You say there is no possibility of any time paradox ever occuring. How in heck would you know? Even if you are right on this one, its a lucky guess on your part. You don't know. I don't think you could think your way out of a paper bag.
You said that it is "tommorrow in Japan". Does that mean that it is yesterday in Spain? Good grief, get a grip. If you would think a little more yourself, maybe you would be less inclined to tell everybody else how to do it.
I do advise however, that you could stick around and learn something.
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pamela
Member posted 17 November 2000 21:11
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Shadow,
I have to hand it to you that was funny!bananna split travel...hehheh
your a good person I can tell.
I personally cannot understand why someone posts on a timetravel web site that doesnot beleive time travel is or ever will be possible. but Im glad they do because I do learn things from them.
I think it a little humerous..... although it would be foolish to beleive everyone that says they are a time travler that shows up on here, and we have actually disproved several fake attempts. I beleive if a real time traveler actually showed up... nobody would even beleive them. there is only a couple of people on here who even asked this guy questions. even though this web site gets an average hit of about 98 people in a 12 hour period.
how could you ever come to the knowledge of the truth if you dont ask questions?
my question is....do we really beleive time travel is possible or do we have to be one who experiences a little of it first before we will even consider it?
Is time travel ever going to be a possibility in our future? if the answer is yes but not for thousands of years...well if they travel back to our time then it now becomes a possibility in our time as well.
DaViper? why is it you have not attempted to Disprove why the diagrams could not work?
why have you not argued against the use of singularities? or why it could not be possible for him to be here? Is it because you don't understand what it is you are seeing? I want to hear the arguments why nobody beleives this could be a possibility ....dont any of you people have an opinion?
In our current view of things The possibility of it not being true is pretty high for a time traveler to openly expose himself in this manner..but..what if in his world time travel is not a secret?
In relating to a time traveler from a future time may be like relating to an alien from another country,another dimension or even another world. you first have to understand the environment from which they came. depending on how far in the future it would be.. their thinking would not be the same on certain issues because of how they were raised in their environment.
I think it is as he has said though that some people would not beleive it even if the machine was right in front of them.
Just consider for a moment.... what if it was true? what a great opportunity you have all lost.
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 18 November 2000).]
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Curious
unregistered posted 17 November 2000 23:22
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My opinion is that there is a high probability that he (Timetravel_0) is as he has represented him self. And to add to that, what makes anybody so sure there hasn't been others? How would you know? Do you think they will show you a time travel visa? It is sometimes amazing how great the human mind is able to except new ideas. The (energy field) diagram in the manual looks very similar to some diagrams that were perported to be from the Philadephia Project.(from an Al Beilek video tape) Just my opinion, I could be wrong...........
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 19 November 2000 06:15
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Now then..
If i go back to the year 1960 and give the scientist community there a book on advanced electronics in computers , would it not be that they would READ this book and design say, a pentium 3 chip in 1960 that would forward our technology advances 40 years?
if that is so how would this timeline be like? Would we have far better microproccessors here in 2000?
The materials needed to produce a chip like the P3 for example were availiable (to an extent) in 1960. So it would not be unheard of for me to jump back in time , give a book on microprocessors to IBM and see what they come up with...
A thought...
Did anyone witness the giant computer "boom"
of the late 60's? Computer technology went from basic 286 processors to great big polygon crunchers in the early 90's. In the space a short 10 years microprocessor speeds have doubled every six months...
Technology is advancing at an incredible rate which leads me to think that perhaps we were visited by timetravelers in the 60's or thereof, in order to further the advancement of the human race. How does one explain the massive technology jumps from the moonlanding to our present time?
Seems to quick to go from a 286 to a 1 GHZ...
I think we had help , but thats my opinion.
Insights? Opinions?
Thankyou.
Dr Light
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Fast
Member posted 19 November 2000 19:35
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according to TT0,our technology would not change in the least..you would return you your original dimension and the book would(POSSIBLY) advance some other dimension's technology...
Fast Out
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 20 November 2000 12:14
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But if the parallel worlds theory is true , that would make the book in question be relevant to ALL worlds including the one i just came from...
Therefore that would make technology jumps for all of the worlds, not just every dimension besides mine.
Perhaps it would evolve differently for my dimension but there is still the fact that it WOULD evolve because i went back and changed history for every world.
But....
that's my opinion...
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Time02112
Member posted 20 November 2000 12:20
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I still say "Something" of a very peculiar High Strangeness did occur in Roswell in the fourties, and whatever it was, it had something to contribute to our current Time-Line, which altered it indefinately.
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 20 November 2000 12:35
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A few words..
i just finished reading the whole two pages and i have come to this conclusion.
Pamela...your a champion...no really...and thank you for the links.
and Mr_0....good luck my friend...see you in 2036.
P. Light
Thanks you
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Dr light
unregistered posted 20 November 2000 05:39
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You sold your 67' when you got here?
how do you expect to get back?!
Also, how have you overcome the problem of housing , food , job ,social security number , tax...or perhaps you are not here for that long.
Also how did you get on the net and have access to a scanner to reproduce your work on the net?
So many questions and things to do in this time..yet you have the time to post your C204 manual on the web.
I am not trying to disprove you Mr _0, but the people in power (pamela) urges us to ask relevant questions surrounding your existence in this time. This world is run on the economical side of things and i am just curious to how you happened to blend in to "our" way of living.
The way i see it..is that you MAY be a T.Traveller judging by your grasp on quantumn mechanics and your vivid picture of the future but......
This world is run on the basis of "guilty until proven innocent" Myself..i would like to believe and your diagrams and schematics seem to confirm this. BUT there are skeptics out there who might think your a looney as you have seen.
I myself believe in timetravel and as the theory goes.." if , at any point in history we will be able to T.T , we are being visited by others right now , from the future."
If it makes no matter that you are here telling us about your revolutionary new T.T device...what would happen if we SUPPOSEDLY built a prototype ...as my argument would state about the P3 and the 286..we would fast forward events in time.....36 years or so , with the development of a prototype c204 right NOW , using the skematics you have given us.But as pamela said..."..dont any of you people have an opinion?"
I am not out to shatter your reputation on this forumn.. but i just want simple answers.
Thank you
Dr Light
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 20 November 2000 17:16
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To: Dr. Light.
(You sold your 67' when you got here?
how do you expect to get back?!)
The unit is portable between vehicles. It is very heavy and requires a "stiff" suspension. The unit is currently in a 4WD.
(Also, how have you overcome the problem of housing , food , job ,social security number , tax...or perhaps you are not here for that long.)
I am currently living with my parents on this world line. They know exactly who I am and how I got here.
(Also how did you get on the net and have access to a scanner to reproduce your work on the net?)
There are numerous ways to do that. Any local printing shop allows you access to a computer system.
(So many questions and things to do in this time..yet you have the time to post your C204 manual on the web.)
What suggestions do you have?
(This world is run on the economical side of things and i am just curious to how you happened to blend in to "our" way of living.)
You don't think you could blend into 1970? What difficulties would you expect to have that couldn't be overcome?
BUT there are skeptics out there who might think your a looney as you have seen.)
I have nothing to sell nor do I want anyone to believe in me or take some action. What other people think of me does not affect me in the least.
(If it makes no matter that you are here telling us about your revolutionary new T.T device...what would happen if we SUPPOSEDLY built a prototype ...as my argument would state about the P3 and the 286..we would fast forward events in time.....36 years or so , with the development of a prototype c204 right NOW , using the skematics you have given us.But as pamela said..."..dont any of you people have an opinion?")
What you do on your world line is your own business. I can't think of any better way to start a war than for someone to figure out how to make a time machine. Go for it.
(I am not out to shatter your reputation on this forumn.. but i just want simple answers.)
I will be happy to answer "almost" any question you have.
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Time02112
Member posted 20 November 2000 23:07
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TT_0
I STRONGLY
urge you to contact me before you leave us! I must make contact with you before you go.
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 20 November 2000).]
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:04
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 3)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Dr Light
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 01:10
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So Mr_0
Perhaps you would like to explain to me how your parents fully understand HOW you got here , since you are a T.T, you showed them you c204 and they believed you totally?
I do not know your age so i am assuming that you would be over 40 years old.
How would your parents react to seeing you in 2000 as a 40 year old man? That would surley be enough evidence to show you are a true time traveller...
What exactly does the year 2000 have for you?
If you say the year 2005 is the war where 3 billion people die..you only have 5 years left then you will merely whisk off to 2036 with your IBM 5100 p.c,leaving our timeline in ruins and you would only be away for a few seconds...
What we do on our timeline IS our own buisness ,but we would appreciate it if you do not jeopardize our position here by giving someone the information/skematics to build a time machine that you say would "start a war"
So what your saying is that the development of the C204 is the reason the "war" started?
So why are you trying to put us through your timeline and kill us too? Or are you trying to change history here and hope it will work on the parallel worlds theory and turns out well for you in the end?
As Pamela said you have an obligation to this world line. We may be in infintley spaced world lines but that does not mean you should put us through your problems too.
What if you never showed up and gave us the skemtics? Are you trying to AVOID or START a war of massive consequences?
Your argument is taken entirely out of context when i compare it to my previous argument about the P3 and the 286 processor
"What we do is our buisness" but you are here causing controversy and "hoping?" perhaps someone does create the c204?
So you are willing to sacrafice billions of lives and hope that everything is fine and dandy when you get back.
If events DO change here...they will change for you too.
BUT...
thats my OPINION.
Remember just answers please..
Thanking you,
Dr P.Light
(p.s pamela ,your opinion please)
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Shadow
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 10:29
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Dr. Light,
There is a thin line between question and accusation. I'm pretty sure TT-O DOES NOT check in here seeking abuse or accusal.
The reason this board is here is to determine the the plausabiliy and possible usability of time travel. If there is no such thing, or even the perception that there is no time travel and no time travelers then we need to unplug this board and for all of us to 'go home'.
The point is not is Mr. TT-O for real but rather is what we THINK we are doing here for real.
As TT-O says how we take care of our own time line IS OUR BUSINESS. Doing so in stark ignorance can lead to problems for those who put a priority on getting through the day alive.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 10:41
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All of the questions asked by Mr. Light have been answered in one way or another. I believe Pamela has that information if she has not released it already.
You assume I am here to start a war?
Consider this: You are a time traveler who wishes to go back in time to 1941 because your grandparents live close to Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. You realize you can’t stop the war but you may be able to help them prepare for it. Strangely, December 7th comes and goes with no sneak attack. As the war in Europe rages on, Japan fails to join the axis power, there is no war in the Pacific and the United States remains neutral. Then, you watch as Germany begins to develop the atomic bomb… all by themselves.
For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think…think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half that never happened?
As far as war goes, I have faith you are quite capable of starting one all by yourself. I am hard pressed to accept any criticism on my outlook on that subject. Growing up might have been a vastly different experience for me than it was for most of you. Personal responsibility, determination, honor, friendship and self-reliance are not just words we try to live up to or fantasize about. On my world line, life is not easy. We live in a world recovering from years of war, poison, destruction and hate. All of it, courtesy of the thinking and actions of people that live right now in the same world you do, worrying about which stocks to buy or whether or not a stranger is lying to them on the internet. I believe that hardship and challenge develop character and community. My first experience with war came when I joined a shotgun infantry unit at the age of thirteen. In the 4 years I served as a “rebel”, I watched hundreds of people get shot, burn and bleed to death. I know exactly where I was and every detail of the exact moment the first nuclear warheads began falling on Jacksonville. I know the pain and regret of not acting soon enough to enjoy a relationship as a loved one dies of brain cancer from a war that gained nothing.
How can you possibly criticize me for any conflict that comes to you? I watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you, you willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and dying all around you. Is this the “Universal Law” you subscribe to?
Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civicly ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:17
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Think, think, think, what major disaster didn't happen last year. No y2k computer meltdown! Are you intimating that your people fiddled with time and saved us from that one? If so how could I complain other than to say that MY y2k preperations in themselves have turned into a MAJOR PERSONAL disaster that continues to this day. Ky-sur-sur-rah, ay?
Reading your posts I get conflicting ideas about what effect our timeline has on yours. Didn't you say that "another you" was here now as a two year old child? Is the 'Everret Many Worlds' interpretation of quantum mechanics it the correct one then? You seem to look at us as represenative of your ACTUAL predicessors. There is something a bit unnerving about that. In fact the main reason why I think you might be genuine is that I have trouble thinking LIKE you do. I would expect this of an encounter with a "Chrono-alien".
It seems to me that there would be some effect from one parallel world to another. Therefore what you do in this time line would have at least INDIRECT consequences in all future lines. The idea of many time lines I can 'get', but infinite ones? Perhaps on the parallel axis they just keep getting more different until they are seen as completly different alien worlds.
Is it possible to communicate between times and parallel worlds without physically going to them? Im getting a little sick of talking to myself...ha ha ..(.I think).
So we are all lazy and selfish around these times. Not exactly a news flash bud. Oh, did I leave out ignorant too? Hey it fits the profile. The word you are looking for however is POWERLESS. That is why we now, in general don't give a flying crap about what goes on. There ain't nothing we can do about it aside getting out teeth kicked in for tyring.
Let me put it this way. The wrong people got all the money......already. The rest of us are mostly concentrating on not starving or freezing to death. What do you want anyway? The disaster you have suffered in your time (and ours to come I suppose) got its start long long before today. We were warned decades ago......yeah now I see your point.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:37
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To: TimeTravel_0
Refer to post above.......forgot to stick your name on it again.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:47
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To: TimeTravel_0
Has the mystery of UFO's been solved by 2036? Crop circles? I figure it is all "paralell worlder" stuff but is anything specific been determined?
BTW
The one way questioning going on here is mosty because you already know lots more about us than we can ever know about you.
Let us know when you plan to check out.
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Time02112
Member posted 21 November 2000 14:41
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A.) Russia has "ALWAYS" been considered the first Country, to be suspect of a probable Nuclear Attack against the USA, and I, for one have NEVER relinquished the thought that inevitably, this will happen while I remain alive to witness this unfourtunate trajedy come to fruition.
*Why have they been stockpiling Nuclear arms purchased from their Diplomatic relations with China, and protesting our "Star-Wars" defense systems during this plot?
We never seen it comming?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 21:31
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There have been a great many questions piling up that I do plan to get to. If anyone sees a question I have answered before, please feel free to repeat the answer.
I do not plan on leaving this world line for a while yet. I very much enjoy spending time with my family.
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Curious
unregistered posted 21 November 2000 23:01
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To TT_0, How is it, that in the future they can produce and contain an artificial singularity, by complex computer systems, but can't reproduce a basic pc (IBM 5100). Or is it easier to just "borrow" these items from an alternate time line? Or did you use the lack of a computer system as an excuse to vist your family?
Curious
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 22 November 2000 12:57
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To T.T_0,
So if we are a bunch of sick lazy ignorant stupid etc etc's......what are YOU doing among us?
Do you like our artificial foods? Or is it the meaningless piles of "junk" we churn out year after year? Perhaps it is the choked atmosphere? And we also turn an "uncaring eye" away from the millions suffering too?
Perhaps this time is just like yours......
We still have war , hate and all the above.
Humph. I didnt know that what we think is so technologically advanced and superior ( myself excluded)is looked upon as ,for want of a better word, "Sh*t"
I agree with Shadow.
Can we help but to eat these foods , drink this water? Survival is the key word here.
But another question arises..
Do you think i am accusing you? I meerly went and posted a message about my opinions on the subject.I happen to strongly believe in Time travel and i also believe YOU.They are only QUESTIONS as i have stated Mr_0. I also dont think you are here to start a war, of all things. if it was for my family, i would go though time too.
Or else what would i be doing here?
As soon as anyone here on this forumn starts talking in terms of "not believing you" you get aggravated? I dont wish for that to be.
These are questions , and nothing more. Tell me if i have hit a soft spot. Im not trying to but it might seem that way.
Life here in 2000 is not at all easy for us here too. A handfull of people run this timeline....
(Sigh)
Regards,
Dr. P.Light
(P.S) There are a few questions (not accustaions as you out them) i would like to ask about the workings of the C204 unit before you leave us. I will post them up later.
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lllllllll
unregistered posted 22 November 2000 14:32
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What Can we do to help you here in this time line. Who is responcible for the disaster to come? Can you tell us if the world has been unified under one single goverment in your time. To you have the means to calculate interactions over the range of the universe so that to enable which alterations need to be made at which points in the present universe at given times in order recreate an optimal time period for yourself when you return. Remeber this no matter what generation one goes to their is alwas trechory for it is sin in the human race that enables such degradation. What do you think about our time period? Have you tried any of our fast food? What technologies were lost as a result of the war? Who won the war? My favorite junk food is M&M's. What ebergy source did you use for your traveling technique. Did you use acceleration or compression as a stabilizing force. How did you overcome the temperal turbulence caused by the affects of time dialation? Was topology a big part of it? Are you seeking to return to a parallel dimension? In the present. Has anyone actually created a true interdimensional device. Or has only parrellel frames past frames been abtained within the worldline of the negative universe? What do you need to fix your ship? Has your resurfacing in the past resulted in the creation of a parallel entity as a result of the transfer of a phantom point of entity equivalence across the intersimensional barrier resulting in the abstraction of an existant entity out of the fractional entity less then zero. Have you figured a way to counter this energy?
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Time02112
Member posted 22 November 2000 16:44
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11/20/00 - Mon/Tue
Guest: Dr. Eugene Mallove
Dr. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief and Publisher of Infinite Energy Magazine will discuss cold fusion and
new energy technology. Dr. Mallove holds a Master of Science Degree and Bachelor of Science Degree
in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from MIT and a Science Doctorate in Environmental
Health Sciences from Harvard University.
Book: Fire from Ice: Searching for the Truth Behind the Cold Fusion Furor
Website: www.infinite-energy.com
(Click on the Windows media icon above, to listen to the pre-recorded broadcast.)
I posted this elswhere, however I wanted to ensure that TT_0 would review this, and post his comments accordingly...
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pamela
Member posted 22 November 2000 20:58
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Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this
time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear
suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any
light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?
Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers "appearing" suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to "ripple" as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn't move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.
Pamela:2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?
Timetravel_0-It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.
Pamela:3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?
timetravel_0-Depending on weather or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn't quite say it "scoops" up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative ergosphere "scoops" up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.
Pamela:4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?
Timetravel_0-It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at all except for the floor.
Pamela:5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?
Timetravel_0-It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.
Pamela:6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?
Timetravel_0-Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.
Pamela:7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?
Timetravel_0-The car is off and the brake on.
Pamela: 8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?
Timetravel_0-Not that I'm aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.
Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look
like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?
Timetravel_0-I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training.
Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a
quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where
ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a
Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it)
with two spiral paths running through it's center. One path represents the
"safe" way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my
unit number along with "Temporal Recon" printed on it. However, we remove
any identification and patches before we go anywhere.
Pamela:10.Can you tell us what you know about the famous Philadelphia experiment?
timetravel_0-I am aware of the basic story but I don't have any other information to
prove or disprove it.
Pamela:11. How long do we have to talk to you before you leave?
timetravel_0-I'll be around for a while yet.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 22 November 2000 22:13
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Leader of a troup of time traveling Irish Army ants:
Corporal_O'Kerrants.
If you see him
It ain't 'em, but "EM"
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TimeMaster 1a
Member posted 23 November 2000 06:10
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TimeTravel_0:
I have been looking over your time displacement unit and find it interesting.
This is a list of the basic components as I see it.
1. Singularity drive houseing.
2. Singularity magnetic field coil.
3. Magnetic field generator / regulator.
4. Electron mass injection manifold.
5. Electron regulator.
6. Electron condenser.
7. Singularity ??? senser.
8. Singularity cooling housing.
9. Singularity cooling pump.
10. Singularity cooling supply.
11. Gravity senser unit.
12. Battery supply.
Can you verify these components?
What type of senser is number seven?
Why are the four atomic clocks not shown?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 09:10
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(Can you verify these components?)
That looks correct. I must apologize for the poor quality of the information. There's a running inside joke about the technical issues. If the unit has a serious problem its not as if anyone can use those drawings to take the electron manifold off the singularity housing with a flat head screw driver.
(What type of senser is number seven?)
That sensor detects various parameters from the singularity.
(Why are the four atomic clocks not shown?)
There is another page that depicts the computer and clock systems. That technology is not new and not very interesting.
There is a cut-a-way drawing of the entire unit that I will probably post before I leave. I'll send it to Pamalea.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 13:57
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To Shadow:
UFOs are as much as a mystery to me as they are to you. Would you be surprised to know that there are a great many people who don’t believe in time travel on my world line?
I do believe UFOs are a real mystery but I also know that chaos theory dictates that no matter what technology or knowledge we have, there are always unknowns.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 13:59
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To: Curious
On my world line, it is known that the 5100 series is capable of reading all the IBM code written before the widespread use of APL and Basic. Unfortunately, there are none left that anyone can find on my world line.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 14:01
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To: Dr. P.Light
It is quite difficult to get used to some of the communication patterns I have come across here. Confusing conversational conflict for anger seems to be a common and typical problem. Why does the expression of differing emotion seem to threaten so many people? I do not feel accused nor was I trying to accuse anyone. Your opinions are as valid as anyone’s and I do not suggest you change them because of anything I say. I never said I was here to start a war although I have strong opinions about what a war would do for you. I am not aggravated by words.
Imagine you are Jewish and you are able to travel back in time to Germany in 1935. All around you are the patterns of thinking and action that will lead to a great deal of harm, death and destruction in just a few years. You have the advantage of knowing what will come but no one will listen to you. In fact, they think you’re insane and the situations you describe could never happen.
What I feel is not anger, it is sadness that you can not see what I see.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 14:03
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To: IIIIIIIIII
I appreciate your offer for help but I am quite alright. The responsibility for the “disaster” is your own but I do not consider it a disaster. Rebirth is often painful. My world line is not unified under a single government but I would say it is closer to a unified purpose. Isn’t that what you want anyway? No, I do not have the ability to make calculations that would effect world lines to my advantage. Besides the fact that manipulating people for personal gain is wrong, I am of the belief that it is best to make the world line you are on now better.
I like the incredible freedom you have on this world line but I see it as a trap and I fear the cost is the loss of your sense of connection with family and community. Yes, you can self actualize your ambitions but at what cost to the people around you…or yet to be born? The incredible availability of art, literature and limitless resources is hardly taken advantage of as I imagine the number of people sitting in front of their TVs.
No, I have not tried any fast food. Thinking about where the food came from, how it was shipped and treated absolutely terrifies me. I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be “catching on” in Europe.
Technologies themselves are not lost but some of the older tools and techniques have been lost. I think there is more detailed information about the war posted earlier. The energy stored in the singularity is used to create the distortion fields. That energy is created in a particle accelerator. I’m not sure what you mean by “temporal turbulence”. What effect would that have that would need to be overcome?
When I leave, I will return to 2036. The computer I have is expected there. I am unaware of any “true” interdimensional device available on this world line now. I would image the effects of such a device would be hard to hide.
My “ship” is not broken. I am here by choice. Don’t you find current events interesting? Again, I’m not sure I understand your last question. Perhaps we should agree to the definitions of a few terms and basic physics before I try to answer that.
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Time02112
Member posted 25 November 2000 17:08
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I am unaware of any “true” interdimensional device available on this world line now. I would image the effects of such a device would be hard to hide.
TT_0 I recommend that you read the following archived posts. Although there are some interesting information about "Existing" portals that traverse the Space-Time continuumn, Time~Travel capability is just one ability that these devices are capable of, and the most interesting factor resides with the fact that they may even pre-date mankinds own history? (perhaps.)
http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000308.html
"Utilizing The Earth's Energy Grid To Navigate Time Vortex's."
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http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000345.html
"Time Port Area in Marfa Texas."
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http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000339.html
"History of Uknown Origins & New Beginnings."
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http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000045.html
"Stargate in the Andes."
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Questions, Comments, Concerns?
I would like your comments of this TT_O
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Shadow
unregistered posted 25 November 2000 17:44
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to TT_0 and the currious
The fact that better equipment is supposed to get the reverse-time traveler closer to their actual past indicates that there is an ACTUAL SPECIFIC past that he is aiming for. So if in practical application the traveler ends up 2% divergent upon arrival in the past and if he stays in that line he finds that it is not a line at all, but that going forward, divergence approches infinity. If this is so, the only way to get back to ones' original future is to have left some kind of specified object or condition there as a marker. Reverse time divergence is an artifact of the machine you use and not a built in natural law of physics.
In this idea the past is exactly behind you and the future is always and litterally "right around the corner", It also suggests that the self is fractionalized over several to many parallel time lines eventhough we may only *realize* one line at once. Organic psyche may be what LIMITS divergence (of time lines). Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how's my facts?
BTW Someone just gave me a working IBM 5160. Should I save it or toss it?
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pamela
Member posted 26 November 2000 16:32
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To the reader: feel fortunate you are reading this I had a hard time posting it hopefully it will appear this time. More questions from me to Timetravel_0 and his answers.
(can you tell us which of our foods are poison and why?)(What can we do to prepare ourselves for the coming war.)
I tried to consolidate your questions into a basic list. I hope this helps.
1. Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of
its own dead.
2. Do not kiss or have intimate relations with anyone you do not know.
3. Learn basic sanitation and water purification.
4. Be comfortable around firearms. Learn to shoot and clean a gun.
5. Get a good first aid kit and learn to use it.
6. Find 5 people within 100 miles that you trust with your life and stay in
contact with them.
7. Get a copy of the US Constitution and read it.
8. Eat less.
9. Get a bicycle and two sets of spare tires. Ride it 10 miles a week.
10. Consider what you would bring with you if you had to leave your home in
10 min. and never return.
(Can you tell us exactly what event started the war? Is there any way we can
stop it?)
The war is a result of faulty politics and desparation from Western
leadership during the US civil war. Yes, I suppose you could stop it.
(Are some states or countries safer than others?)
Take a close look at the county by county voting map from the last
elections.
(Did they use biological and chemical weopons in the war besides nukes? Did
they use mind control weopons?)
Yes there were bio and chem weapons used. No mind control weapons but there
are new "non-leathal" weapon systems that turn out to be quite leathal.
( Have you discovered the cure for cancer or aids yet?)
Aids...no. Cancer...some progress.
(If our leaders of this world line were reading this posting and beleive who
you say you are........what would you say to them right now?)
Revel in your confidence today because you will not win tomorrow.
(What is the main message you want to convey to us at this time?)
Please, please wake up. Look at the sign posts around you now.
(Can you explain this further when you talked of your patch and the two
spirals one was the "safe" way and one was the way to God. Can you expound
on that I didnt quite understand it.)
The safe way is the one calculated to take you in time where you want to go,
the other path will take you to God (death). Both are equally accepted and
anticipated before each trip.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 26 November 2000).]
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Fast
Member posted 26 November 2000 17:51
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ive been gone for 4 days and i get back and TT0 is leaving and there are people in doubt over his story??
I have been reading that around 2011 there is some new world order-type government in place...TT0,can u verify?
Also,a while back(page 2 of the posts) you said something was wrong with UNIX in your time...what is wrong?
Fast Out
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Fast
Member posted 26 November 2000 18:01
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"--Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civicly ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.
"
who's to say that in your own time-line's future,your not considered barbaric and immature in your own arrogance with the notion that 'yes we survived...we can handle another war...now lets use the technology that STARTED the bloody war and go back into someone else's time-line and start a war there too...perhaps then we will have parallel companions with the same motives?'
War is the darkest of all Arts.The Age which follows includes those who practice another of the darkest:arrogance.
Fast Out
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Dr. Light
unregistered posted 27 November 2000 01:37
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To: T-T-0
Just a quick question before i jet,
Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? I mean to say that since the jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000, would they mount a force against other countries or am i under the beief that the war will result from the U.S government election?(among other things).
On another previous note,
You must understand that we cannot just willingly give in our skeptisism just because a person comes onto a bulliten board and announces that he/she is from 2036?
Tell me T-T_0, when you first typed a message here announcing your arrival...did anyone believe you? We have had proven "false" time traelers here before as you may have heard. ut your considerable grasp of quantumn physics and distortion fields seems to justify you.
Seems like your the ..."real deal"
P.S--I KNEW that particle acceleraton technology would be part of time travel!!!
Makes sense doesnt it!
P.P.S-- Singularity cooling pump?
What do you cool the singularity with?
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Dr .P Light
unregistered posted 27 November 2000 04:01
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To TT-0
Just an afterthought i forgot to add to my previous post..
How much more advanced are the computer hardware and software systems in the future?
Are we looking at 110Ghtz computers with stamped silicon system technology as opposed to 200 million microtransistor configurations?
Or do we have the usual "crawling along with hardware advances every 6 months?"
Please feel free to go into details.
Dr P.Light
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Time02112
Member posted 27 November 2000 16:03
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pamela
Member posted 08 April 2000 18:23
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This is interesting: http://www.damanhur.org/time/html/kindred_spirit_s_article.htm
click on "interview with a timetraveller."
"tales of the unexpected" is his recall of his travels.
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Do you remember this one Pamela? http://tectime.cjb.net
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 27 November 2000).]
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IIIIIIIIII
unregistered posted 27 November 2000 22:57
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Dear Time0,
if one found a method to pryapart a magnetic field would this result in a containable release of energy. Would the energy channeled through the tear be in the form of a tachyon field with the forward edge of the tachyon field at a velocity of light. Would the internal tachyons within the tachyon field have a velocity greater then light even though existing in the present subluminal time frame?
inquisitively.
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Time02112
Member posted 28 November 2000 01:29
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TT_0
What can you tell us about
"Space Time Transposing" ?
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Time02112
Member posted 28 November 2000 01:51
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Originaly posted from the coast to coast forum by: Alan Troidl http://post.coasttocoastam.com/showthread.php?threadid=355
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Time travel has been taking place for thousands of years.
The foremost device used was the pyramids around the world
used by ancient civilizations. This was for time travel and not so much as a burial site as commonly believed. The physics behind this is the sacred geometrics of the pyramid shape.
The geometric shape of the pyramid allows for the concentration of "White Light" as well as "Dark Light".
The dark light was conduited from the area in the pyramid know as the "well" which no one could understand its use as it is a hole that suddenly stops with no apparent purpose
or use.
Above the King's Chamber are huge layered stomes with air spaces. One side shiny and smooth and the other side dark and rough. This is a capacitance machine for the separate
collection of the 2 light sources.
These 2 light sources, one coming from the earth and the white light from the cosmos above criss crossed but did not intersect each other at the point of the sarcophagus. This technology allowed for time travel and the opening of the "third eye".
As well, the design of 2 pyramids intersecting base to base
to give you the design of the 6 point star, (or the star of david), is the sacred symbol and geometry to enter into zero point time or Christ Consciousness.
There are modern day devices that impliment these principals
for time travel.
By having your own brain operating at the same harmonic frequency as obtained through man made devices, can give you
the same ability to do conscious time travel.
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Time02112
Member posted 28 November 2000 02:01
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There is a fortelling of a significant Time Divergence that is believed to occur during the year 2012 according to the ancient Mayans, yet you claim to be from 2034, and posses a working Time Travel device...
What can you tell us would happen to you, or anyone els who were to use your device, or another one similar in capabilities to travel to the yr. 2012???-----------
(also I would like you to tell us what you know, or have been told what takes place in "2112")
incidently, since it is common knowledge that many events within our cosmos are cyclical, interesting enough the "Photon Belt" returns to our solar system every 26,000 yrs. and in the given Time frame since it's last presence in our solar system, that would place it's peak convergence upon us again at 2012 coincidence?
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 28 November 2000).]
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Time02112
Member posted 29 November 2000 02:22
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TT_0 so many questions, yet you seem to have more "Time" than most to address them, so while I await your replies to my other posts, here goes another....
I'ts no big secret among thos who are "In the Know" of our current worldline's attempts to control the weather i.e. HAARP & Chemtrails, so What can you tell us about the future of weather control such as the following...
bronze flying globes that float in the air over the earth, and are aligned in grid formations, and lasers joining them together in the air, churning out snow storms, rain, or whatever else they decide to induce,to be created in the given space provided???
------BTW; I traveled to the past, and grabbed an earlier comment you posted.
Does anyone remember this one?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 02 November 2000 01:00
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I saw the posting requsting the basic systems for a gravity distortion system that will allow time travel. Here they are:
1. Magnetic housing units for dual microsignularities.
2. Electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity of microsingularities.
3. Cooling and x-ray venting system
4. Gravity sensors (VGL system)
5. Main clocks (4 cesium units)
6. Main computer units (3)
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 29 November 2000).]
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Shadow
unregistered posted 29 November 2000 09:29
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I hate to sound sarcastic but didn't you some what gloss over the most critical piece of time-travel equipment? I don't see the $10,000,000+ dollars listed anywhere, that it would take to buy and fabricate all that other stuff.
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pamela
Member posted 30 November 2000 19:43
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time 02112:
this web site from Nov. 1, 2000 at 10:00pm
till Nov. 30, 2000 at 7:38pm
has been accessed: 4026 times.
I was curious how many hits it got in about a month. well there it is... heheheh
if it continues it will be well over 48,312 a year.
I thought it was interesting. there seems to be a lot of people interested in time travel but few post.
-pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 30 November 2000).]
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 01 December 2000 14:09
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Perhaps it is better to understand if one understands that all fractional entities less then one is equal to zero spacially and less then zero temperally when measuring the temperal fractional entity in terms of spacial fractional entity known as a plancs length. Of course I could be misinterpriting the definition of a plancs length. Please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect in assuming that what I have gathered as the definition of a temperal zero, and a spacial zero; and the plancs temperal length, and a plancs spacial length as being the same conscept: is wrong. Otherwise the ofore mentioned point of view ought to be considered. (If there is any confusion as to what I am talking about please have a look see under rgrunts time travel posting in order to aquire the basic train of thought behind the above mentioned statement.)
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pamela
Member posted 01 December 2000 23:04
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timetravel_0 said he would be back he is just a little busy right now.
patience is a virtue. time takes... time.
-pamela
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[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 02 December 2000).]
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 04 December 2000 15:36
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Thanks for the knowlege Pamela. I really think that the design or basic model that Time-o gave sounds legit but I think that if he could replace the particle accelerator with a an electromagnetic device that uses only one kind of particle-a magnetic photon- that the energy would be much more stable and easier to control. I also believe that such a replacement would require much less accuracy and would be at the minimum as efficient if not more efficient then the energy production that he is intent on using. A gravity generator would also be just as affective in extracting the necessary energy required to power the device. This will require alot more effort such as discovering how to make a gravitational generator.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 December 2000 21:36
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(What is the popular music like?)
Most of the same music you enjoy is available on archive. However the days of mega-stars playing multiple track studio produced music and lip synching on a huge stage are pretty much isolated to your time period. Like everything else, music is much less centralized. The general trend is away from “computer generated” music and more toward real people playing real instruments. Music is much more of a personal experience. More people know how to read music and play together in small groups.
(Are there any social prejudices)
Yes there are. However, as odd as it may sound, it serves a useful purpose in my time. First, you must realize that your experiences with “prejudice” and mine are different. I would characterize the intolerance you have here as a result of ignorance and fear. I have observed that people with unfounded and irrational fears about their fellow man in this time have the luxury of not having their beliefs tested.
After the war, much of the prejudice you have now was swept away by simple necessity. People had to work and fight together just to survive. This has a way of opening a person’s eyes as to the value of fellow human beings.
What difference does the color of a man’s skin make when you are both fighting against the same enemy to survive or find water or grow food? On my world line, if a man doesn’t pull his weight in the community, then we feel prejudice towards him as a burden to us. This feeling of shame he experiences then makes him realize his responsibilities.
(What is the health care system like)
You would probably not like it at all. I would compare it to what you see in Western movies. We do have hospitals but there are more family doctors and house calls as compared to what you are used to. There is no real organized health care. If you get a serious disease, you die. This however has had a tendency to strengthen the general genetic pool. Doctors are more concerned about things like broken legs, snake bites and delivering healthy babies.
(What is the entertainment industry like, movies, tv, radio, internet?)
Again, entertainment is less centralized. There are “movies” and “tv” but everything is distributed over the net and more people produce their own “shows”.
(How difficult is it for someone to start from nothing and get a job and make a living for themselves?)
Very easy. If you can work with your hands and get along with other people, you will always find work.
(If a group of people were to travel forward in time to avoid a situation, would they be still be able to live in relative peace? Or would they be looked down on for that? Should they just keep that a secret to make things easier?)
From a physical standpoint, I suppose that would work if you were trying to escape a natural disaster. But you must consider that trying to “escape” by time traveling has it’s own problems. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by being looked down on.
(I have been reading that around 2011 there is some new world order-type government in place...TT0,can u verify?)
On my world line in 2011, the United States is in the middle of a civil war that has dramatic effects on most of the other Western governments.
(Also,a while back(page 2 of the posts) you said something was wrong with UNIX in your time...what is wrong?)
Yes…and with your’s too. I have to believe there must be a UNIX expert out there someplace that can confirm that. I’m not exactly sure what the technical issue is but I believe some sort of UNIX system registry stops in 2038.
(Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? )
Yes.
(I mean to say that since the jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000…)
I’m not sure what power you are referring to.
(Tell me T-T_0, when you first typed a message here announcing your arrival...did anyone believe you?)
I don’t know if anyone believes me now. But you must realize that I don’t expect anyone to believe me or does it affect me one way or the other. I enjoy these conversations too. What would you expect a time traveler to say or do in your time?
(What do you cool the singularity with?)
Very highly technical, cooling stuff. [sorry, I don’t get much of a chance to be a wise guy ]
(How much more advanced are the computer hardware and software systems in the future? )
Good question! I would say the biggest difference is in the reliability of the hardware and software. It absolutely amazes me how willing people are here to accept computer and software failures on such a regular basis. I was very surprised to see how prolific it is. You can look forward to very stringent manufacturing parameters and programming discipline. Think back to the early days of the computer and how much work and cleverness it took to fit those programs into such small areas of memory. Has more and cheaper memory brought better programs or just more programs?
As far as technical specifics, I’m afraid I can not go into too much detail. However, I will tell you that processor speed and memory size take dramatic leaps forward.
(if one found a method to pryapart a magnetic field would this result in a containable release of energy. Would the energy channeled through the tear be in the form of a tachyon field with the forward edge of the tachyon field at a velocity of light. Would the internal tachyons within the tachyon field have a velocity greater then light even though existing in the present subluminal time frame?
inquisitively.)
Hmmm… I afraid my notebook on Maxwell’s equations isn’t with me and I must say again that I am not a physist. As far as tachyons goes, it’s my understanding that they can not exist at all unless they are created and “traveling” faster than light. As far as time travel goes, I’m afraid tachyons are mearly useful for describing various quirky effects of strange matter.
Time 02112 has asked me some questions that I must give further thought to. I will post again as soon as I get a chance.
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pamela
Member posted 08 December 2000 01:08
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Timetraveler_0-
I thought people might be interested in seeing the drawing of the patch you sent me that you wear on your uniform. minus the unit number and the name TEMPORAL RECON.
I know you said you didnt care if i posted it or not. for anyone who would like to see it Doc has posted it on his site here:
http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
then click on "timelords anonymous"
and it is after your other pictures on the
"anonymous gravity/time device pictures"
I tried to do a direct link but it didnt work.
sincerely,
pamela
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:06
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 4)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Time02112
Member posted 09 December 2000 15:37
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...and another one, (Cleaned & Enlarged) version here:> http://www.egroups.com/files/tapten/TAP-TEN/TT_0/T-T+Insignia.jpg
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Roby
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 12:07
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I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?
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Tiger Cohen
Junior Member posted 10 December 2000 09:24
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Hello TT_O!
I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue. I find your answers to questions posed, quite … um, shall we say … creative. To say the least you are a very imaginative person.
I am not here debunking your travels or to discount your stated technology, but I do have just one question.
1. If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space. Our earth is rotating along it’s axis at 1600kph and moving on an elliptical orbit around a sun in a solar system which itself is circling and expanding the galactic center of our galaxy which is itself ever-expanding outward. In truth your machine should (but doesn’t) also have some kind of ‘warp’ capability incorporated in it in order to go back in space to the point where we are now. It’s a wonder that your vehicle didn’t end up in deep space or caught in the gravity well of some other stellar mass. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere.
Oh, I know that you may claim to have access to galactic stellar cartography from this period of space and time, but how would you account for the earth’s rotational speed as well as the moon’s gravitation effect and lastly the avoidance of man made structures which are not totally mapped even by our geosynchronus comsats of this day?
I’m not worried about pieces of dirt within your temporal field or even the odd stray cat being dispersed by your resulting static electricity, but I am curious as to how you overcome all of these obstacles from the contoured seat of what you claim is just a time machine?
Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate. Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space. If you think my logic is faulty, then try jumping high in the air from the back of a flatbed truck while it moves along at freeway speeds.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 11:00
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I will try to answer all of your questions however, I have noticed that there seems to be a difficulty in entering a conversation in the middle. Most of the following questions I have answered at length in previous posts. I understand how important it is to have these answers when new people read portions of the posting but I find it tiring to keep repeating myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
(I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?)
I do not answer questions like this. Although I don’t really know the motivation for the question…I can guess. If a time traveler had knowledge of your future, and you could only ask one question, would this be it? Besides, can you tell me if it rained in New York on June 4th 1932? You are from their future so should you know that?
(I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue…. 1. If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space…. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere… and lastly the avoidance of man made structures…)
This is actually a very good question that parts and pieces of the answer are scattered around in previous postings. I am often surprised that it is not the first one asked. You are correct, this problem is actually the most difficult part of time travel. Although some of your assumptions about matter displacement are a bit off, the problem is real. Inside the displacement unit are a series of very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors. This system is called the VGL (variable gravity lock). In simple terms, before the unit “leaves” a world line, it takes a base reading of the local gravity and adjusts the Tipler sinusoid to “lock” into that position. Although the tmporal physics of this statment are wrong, in effect, it holds you to the “Earth”. During travel, it periodically checks to see that the field has not varied. If it does, it stops and reverses course or drops out at that point. Buildings and other terrain features are avoided in the same way. Yes, we do bring oxygen in the vehicle with us but we do not lose atmospheric pressure.
(Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period.)
I’m not sure what you mean by imprint?
(Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate.)
Yes that is correct.
(Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space.)
Please see VGL system above. Also, please be aware that from the viewpoint of the time traveler, the displacement unit actually left and then returned. The viewer does not experience this. Think of it as a Gosub statement in a computer program.
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pamela
Member posted 10 December 2000 11:32
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from an e-mail to timetraveler_0 and his answers. (TTO-If any of this is different from what you sent me please let me know.this is copied and pasted.)
>1. what type of money system do you have on your world line? meaning how
do you buy and sell things? Do you have the same type of money or do we have
a cashless society? such as smart cards, credit cards or ID biochips.
Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards.
However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized.
Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no
multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no
income taxes.
>2. do you still use radio transponders to ID your cattle and other farm
animals?
Some of the larger farm communities use electronic markers and fences. I am
not a farmer so I don't have very many details about that.
>3.Is the Global Positioning Satellite system still in place around the
Earth?
Oh yes! In fact, the unit I have with me works here. I'm not sure why that
surprises me. There are also a great many communications and internet
satellite systems.
>4.Do you still have the American Flag as your flag? does it look different
or is there a new flag?
Yes, we still have the flag. There is a debate about changing it from 50
stars to 5.
>5.Is there some states or areas that have new names ? is there a NewDenver,
Kansas by any chance?
Not that I can think of... No major cities anyway. I am aware that some
smaller towns changed their names after the war and most universities have
the word "fort" before them on my world line.
>6. How many weeks of training is required before you timetravel? to what
extent does the training involve? Are you able to make basic emergency
repairs to the unit?
I started training on the recommendation of my PS officer when I got out of
school in 34. I graduated in March of 35. Actual hands on training started
soon after that and I left 2036 in April. No, there are not very many
repairs I can make to the unit. The unit is built very well but the
tolerances are very small. I could probably repair the electrical systems
and it will accept inputs from older computers.
>7.Are you able to fish or are the waters polluted from fallout from the
war?
Yes, we can fish. There are some areas that are still too dangerous to
spend a lot of time in so we can't fish in those areas.
>8.Are you aware of any time travelers from our time or other world lines
that have entered your world line? Have you spoke to any of them?
No I am not aware. But I accept the possibility.
>9.What type of public transportation is used to get around in your cities?
A high speed train system connects the larger cities. Roads are still used
for cars and many people ride horses and bikes.
>10. What things do you think you will take back with you from this time?
Books! I'm also taking copies of family photos that were lost during the
war.
>11. How many weeks have you been in this world line? when did you arrive?
That I must keep to myself right now.
>12. What kind of books do you like to read? What kind of music do you
like? do you play a musical instrument?
I read a great deal of history. I like piano classics and some older rock
and roll. (why did that type of music go so far down hill?) No, I don't play
any instruments myself.
>13.Are you concerned about our government investigating you or trying to
seize you or your device?
Not really. In order to find me, they would have to believe time travel is
possible.
>14. are you videotaping or taking pictures of the events going on here to
bring back with you to your time?
Oh yes.
>15. what is your favorite food to eat? here and in your world line.
Its very hard for me to find food here. It all scares the Hell out of me.
I've found a couple of local farms where I am resonably sure the raw food is
safe and my mother started a garden for me.
>16.does the cure for cancer have any thing to do with genetics?
Again...I'm no expert. I believe there is a great deal of progress in
treating the cancer cells with modified viruses. So I guess the answer is
yes.
>17.Do you have an increase in tornados and earthquakes than what we have
now? is the average temperature in Florida in your time about the same as it
is here? or is it different?
That's one area I've decided not to talk about...sorry. The average
temperature worldwide is a bit cooler.
>18. are any of the other 7 time travelers with you in this world line or
are you by yourself?
No. They are off doing something else I'm sure.
>19. are there time travel web sites in the future? does this one still
exist?
Time travel is a major point of social discussion. I'll have to check when
I get back. Most of the larger servers that were in the major cities were
lost or destroyed. I'll try to bring a copy back with me. Perhaps you can
check that in your 2036.
>20.do you feel any connection at all to your other 2 year old self on this
world line? does it seem like you or someone totally different? who does he
think you are when you talk to him?
He calls me uncle. Yes, there is a connection. He fells like a younger
brother. Sometimes I get mixed emotions watching him and realize I'm
watching the origins of my personality. I tend to playfully criticize my
father about that.
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djayr42
Member posted 10 December 2000 13:00
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Time Travel_0, some more questions for you. What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don't exsist now?
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 13:10
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Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren't you worried about somebody finding your ship?
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pamela
Member posted 11 December 2000 12:58
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Reflecting upon the words timetravler_0 has shared with me personally and what I have posted of some of our conversations and watching the news everyday seeing what is happening now in Florida and the courts has made me think deeply upon the United States and the US constitution. What the US was founded on origionally.
I found a web site that has the US constitution and the bill of rights here:
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/charters.html
for anybody interested in reading it.
I printed out the whole constitution including the bill of rights and then sat down and read the whole thing out loud to myself thinking deeply on the rights our founding fathers were trying to protect.
For those of you U.S. citizens who cant remember the constitution beyond the words,
"we the people." its probably time to take another look.
You never know what the future will be like.
or how it will change.
The future is up to us.....
At the beginning of the constitution the first three words "WE THE PEOPLE.." was written in large letters on purpose.
sincerely,
pamela
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 11 December 2000 05:27
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TT-O,
Could you elaborate on my previous questions..
I.E
How and why do the arabs/jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?
Also, about my previous question.. If you would look around you may notice that jewish poeple seem to hold "considerable" power concering major political positions both in America and Israel. For instance the latest technology concerning "defensive" technology
which you might think is reserved only for the superpowers, somehow made its way into Israel's hands...
My point is that they seem to be an "underhand" world power that no-one seems to recognise,(or so it seems)
Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power?
I hope that cleared up my points somewhat.
Thanks,
Dr.P.Light
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Shadow
unregistered posted 12 December 2000 20:36
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To TT-0
"Show me the money!" More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.
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Fast
Member posted 12 December 2000 21:01
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yes,im with shadow.show me the money
i remember reading somewhere online that somebody met their future self and got a dollar's worth of quarters from the future...
did they ever finish the 50 State Quarters,or did war break out and they halted it??
Fast Out
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Time02112
Member posted 13 December 2000 03:15
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Count me in on that on also (Good point)
while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?
(perhaps as a parting gift.)
I still (patiently, patiently, PATIENTLY) await answers to several previous questions.
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Trintius
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 08:17
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TimeTravel_0 a few questions,
- Just wondering who actually wins the US election, it's fair question and im assuming they have Encyclopedia's in the year 2036 so you have no excuse for not knowing the history of your own country?
- Secondly, thanks to national pride I must ask what becomes of Australia during and after the war?
Thanks for your time.
P.S - Dr Light stop peppering the poor time traveler with monotonous questions about arabs and jews, we all know you guys are gunna take over the world one day so theres no need to rub it in
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 12:44
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Well…it looks like the election is almost over. I have been quite busy in the last few days and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I should be thanking you for listening and even if everything I have said before means nothing, I expect it has at least been entertaining. I went through the postings looking for questions I have not addressed yet. I hope I got to all of them. I get my email remotely through about three different systems and I use one of your hand-held computer units to write with. In a few days, I would like to send Pamela a list of questions of my own. As you know, one of my areas of expertise is in history and the information I have gathered has been invaluable. Although I am not leaving right away, I would like to include some of your thoughts in my report.
(Who's to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergence factor is so low, everybody will forget about this in a short time. I wouldn't worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory...)
This statement is quite insightful. One of the reasons I have been communicating this way is so that others that do not post who I have directed here can see some of the information I have shared with you.
(You speak of 1 & 2 % "divergence" as being unimportant. I don't get it. Like for example if OUR IBM5100 is 1% different than the code you have to run on it, it ain't gonna work right. One percent in the FL vote count would be important. If I could see only 99% of the cars on the road it would be important to me. So, what exactly is X% divergent, and why is it not a major problem?)
The divergence measurement refers to the local gravitational field as compared to the point of origin. It is mearly an empirical indicator of overall change in a world line. Some things that are quite different on one world line have very little effect as time passes and the world lines appear to “converge” again and look very similar. World line changes are not exponential, they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.
(Reading your posts I get conflicting ideas about what effect our timeline has on yours. Didn't you say that "another you" was here now as a two year old child? Is the 'Everret Many Worlds' interpretation of quantum mechanics it the correct one then? You seem to look at us as representative of your ACTUAL predecessors. There is something a bit unnerving about that. In fact the main reason why I think you might be genuine is that I have trouble thinking LIKE you do. I would expect this of an encounter with a "Chrono-alien".)
You are correct in your thinking. This world line is not mine but it looks very similar. It may be compared to reading two books that are the same. I can jump back and forth between them and still see the same story. I do not consider you true representatives of my world line but I do know something of how the story ends. In consideration of Everret-Wheeler, the reason we don’t know if Schrodinger’s cat is dead is because it might have had a time machine.
(Russia has "ALWAYS" been considered the first Country, to be suspect of a probable Nuclear Attack against the USA, and I, for one have NEVER relinquished the thought that inevitably, this will happen while I remain alive to witness this unfortunate tragedy come to fruition.)
You are also correct but I want to add a twist to your thinking. Russia’s enemy in the United States is not you, the average person. Russia’s enemy is the United States government.
(The fact that better equipment is supposed to get the reverse-time traveler closer to their actual past indicates that there is an ACTUAL SPECIFIC past that he is aiming for. So if in practical application the traveler ends up 2% divergent upon arrival in the past and if he stays in that line he finds that it is not a line at all, but that going forward, divergence approaches infinity.)
Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.
(Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how's my facts?)
Your deductions are quite accurate. (I’m not stating yet that I did… but) what if I told you I did go forward to “your” 2036 and it looks nothing like mine. It is quite possible.
(BTW Someone just gave me a working IBM 5160. Should I save it or toss it?)
Toss it. The 5100 is the interesting machine.
(Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? I mean to say that since the Jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000, would they mount a force against other countries or am I under the belief that the war will result from the U.S government election?(among other things).)
Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel’s neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and it’s offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the middle-east is a part of what’s to come, not the cause.
(What can you tell us about
"Space Time Transposing" ?)
Perhaps you could describe what you mean? It appears to be space travel or the effect of similar atomic particles that seem to be related over great distances. Again, please forgive my ignorance, I am not a trained physist.
(There is a foretelling of a significant Time Divergence that is believed to occur during the year 2012 according to the ancient Mayans, yet you claim to be from 2034, and posses a working Time Travel device... What can you tell us would happen to you, or anyone else who were to use your device, or another one similar in capabilities to travel to the yr. 2012???----------also I would like you to tell us what you know, or have been told what takes place in "2112")
In my 2012, I was 14 years old spending most of my time living, running and hiding in the woods and rivers of central Florida. The civil war was in its 7th year and the world war was three years away. Yes, there are unusual events in 2012 but they do not cause the world to end. Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?
(It’s no big secret among those who are "In the Know" of our current world line’s attempts to control the weather i.e. HAARP & Chemtrails, so What can you tell us about the future of weather control such as the following...
bronze flying globes that float in the air over the earth, and are aligned in grid formations, and lasers joining them together in the air, churning out snow storms, rain, or whatever else they decide to induce, to be created in the given space provided???)
I must admit I am unfamiliar with most of what you have asked here. I am aware of the Harp system but I don’t know how they would control weather with it.
(What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don't exist now?)
The education system has been through many changes. School in 2036 is no longer a political indoctrination system and students “learn how to learn”. Since community activity varies from place to place, the emphasis on basic reading, math and language is augmented with skills particular to the community. One school may emphasis farming while another teaches woodworking. Having children is a bit different and less common in 2036. A typical school day involves a setting very much like it was 100 years ago with smaller classes and few administrators to teachers. Other areas of study that are less common now are history, citizenship and personal economics.
(Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren't you worried about somebody finding your ship?)
No I am not taking them with me but I am trying to prepare them for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975. I am not really that concerned about the “time machine”. It is quite safe.
(How and why do the Arabs Jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?)
They are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.
(Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power? )
Not against America but they are used against each other.
("Show me the money!" More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.)
I am disappointed that you feel I am trying to impress you. Why would I bring money from 2036 with me? Besides, isn’t that something that could easily be faked? Now if I told you I was your cousin’s brother and I knew about that scare on your left leg…that would convince you.
(while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?
(perhaps as a parting gift.)
That is an interesting idea. I will look into how to do that.
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Time02112
Member posted 13 December 2000 18:12
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While your at it TT_0, don't forget to place a v-cam inside with you, so we can observe the video images that appear through your eyes as you travel, as well as another observing yourself, and a third one outside of the field, observing you depart, and return.
I'm talking 3 V-Cams, to give us these different observations with, which means you have to leave & return to us, to deliver the images.
This would be more valuable than giving us picture of future money, also it would really be way cool, if you could send us video images of the earth below, while observing from an aircraft, what this future landscape of yours looks like, after this great flood of the East & Western U.S. coastal areas that is supposed to take place.
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Time02112
Member posted 13 December 2000 18:19
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BTW TT_0, whatever you can arrange would be appreciated, if you cannot get access to an aircraft, you "DO" have access to remote Sattalight imagery, so either way, you must be capable of this permitting you have the free will to leave & return as you wish.
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Curious
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 19:03
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TT_O, an easy example (or proof) would be to video tape the jump to 1975 and give the video recorder and tape to your self (the you that has already been there/just arrived). That way you don't have to jump back and fourth. The video tape and recorder would then be availible to you now. you could send the tape to someone (when you leave, we don't need any more time-loops).That way there is no danger of divergance in this time-line. Just a thought.
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 22:07
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Dear timetravel-0,
Do you believe in the lord Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? Would it be safe to assume that the substance of time itself might be classified as the sum of two equal opposite forces acting in direct canscelation? If the person or persons responcible for the development of time travel technologies were posting on this sight would you let them know that they were or are responsible. If so would you do so directly or would you hint it only. Or would you use a third option that is to be careful not to say anything that would point out the person or persons responsible neither to the persons responsible themselves nor to the other persons that are on this forum? In short will you say something a coded message that the person or persons responsible only will be able to pick up on or recognize to know that they are the ones responsible for the development of the technologies. It can be anything that the person or persons will recognize as indisputable evidence not as your being valid but as them being the ones responcible for the development? If you are not willing to answer this please just be straight forward about this and answer that you are unwilling to let the persons no who they are. If you have any questions as to my identity ask pamela for she knows who I am and is free to oblige you the information. If you wish to answer this privately even if the answer is no fill free to e-mail me at rgrunt@yahoo.com . I believe that is all the questions I have for know please have a good trip back and thanks for visiting our time line it has been an honor. On behalf of us all I welcome you to return any time you wish. Goodluck and Godspeed. Live long and live well.
sincerely,
Lcpl Edwin Gary Schasteen U.S.M.C. Active
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pamela
Member posted 13 December 2000 23:52
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(Here are Timetraveler_0's questions to everyone on the forum that he sent to me. )
TTO:
Sure thing, here are your questions. my answers follow.
sincerely,
pamela
Dear Pamela,
In my last posting, I said I would come up with questions of my own and send
them to you to post. I would appreciate it if you would do that and answer
them yourself. I would like to include the opinions of the people I have met
in my report when I return home.
Thanks for the help.
1. According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on
choosing a President and why?
2. Do you think the Electoral College should be continued?
3. Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written?
4. What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights?
5. Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor?
6. Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and
development companies?
7. Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see
yourself doing?
8. What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time
without stopping?
9. What is the longest period of time you went without food?
10. Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?
TTO:
To tell you the truth politics never really interested me that much...until now. As I can see now how the curruption of it can ruin an entire nation.
So I don't really have a lot of info in that area. My interests were more in
Medical research and other areas of science. Infact I only became interested in timetravel and quantum physics because of the many experiences I started having as I have shared some of those with you. But I will answer the best I can.(good thing I printed out the constitution and the bill of rights! )
(1. According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on
choosing a President and why?
2. Do you think the Electoral College should be continued?)
I think the people should have the final word on who should become president.
whover has the most votes should win.
(I had to go back and add this...I think every last vote should count. absolutely none thrown out.a system should be in place to eliminate ballots that cannot be read such as if the chad is not fully pierced you should see a light blink and maybe a small beeping sound heard to redo it. I think a whole new voting system is needed.)
(3. Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written?)
To protect the rights of the people and to keep them free.
(4. What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights?)
I beleive it is to keep the government from becoming corrupt and taking over and enslaving the people under tyranny.
(5. Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor?
6. Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and
development companies?)
sorry, I dont know the answer to these two questions.
(7. Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see
yourself doing?)
Hmmm, Im not really a power, money hungry person. but if I had more money my heart will still be in helping other people. The greatest joy is knowing you've made a difference in someone elses life. That you played a part in creating a ripple of good that ripples out from generation to generation. every time you help someone you not only help them but every person they touch from that moment on. I'd probably be more free to do more research. and make new and exciting discoveries. Id spend more time doing things that mattered for eternity and not just to pay bills and taxes. Id also be more free to learn,explore and grow. as well as helping others do so.
one thing I would get though...I would DEFINETELY get a new computer!! (HEEEHEE) mines a piece of crap! I could stay on longer before it crashed or freezed up on me with an error message!
(8. What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time
without stopping?)
hmmm without stopping at ALL? I dont know.
I walked a 20 mile walkathon once. (I think for cerebral palsy, or muscular dystrophy)
I dont think we stopped much but we stop at the little boothes they had set up along the way to get water to drink.
(9. What is the longest period of time you went without food?)
4 days.
(10. Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?)
Cholera is an acute bacterial infection of the small intestine.
The disease is caused by water and food that have been contaminated by feces
of persons previously infected. The symptoms are caused by toxic substances
produced by the infecting organism which mostly causes watery diarrhea and depletes the body of fluids and minerals.
How to avoid getting it? There is currently a cholera vaccine available for people traveling to areas where the infection is endemic.
Other preventive measures you could take would include drinking only boiled
or bottled water and eating only cooked foods.
Treatment includes administration of antibiotics to destroy the infecting bacteria and to restore the fluids and electrolytes with intravenous solutions.
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 14 December 2000).]
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Shadow
unregistered posted 14 December 2000 10:01
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If an advertisement is a snow job then public education is a fullblown blizzard. We are for example tought in high school that there are *THREE* branches of government. There are *FOUR* branches of government in the US. The fourth being "We the People*. To say that that fact gets "glossed over" would be quite the understatement. Every citizen of the US is an official part of the the Official Government. HOWEVER we get to vote only once every two years and it seems that even then our overlings have a bit too much trouble "counting" the votes.
What was the catch word last election? "Disenfranchised". Don't they friggen wish. The People will be heard from.....sooner or later.
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TimeMaster 1a
Member posted 14 December 2000 10:54
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There is an article in Discover magazine that express physicist Julian Barbour theorizes of time. Anyone searching for an understanding of the true nature of time would do well to read this article. Barbour is a theoretical physics that has devoted nearly 40 years to the study of time. There are also links to his home page at discover.com, look under current issue.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 14 December 2000 21:13
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Question #7 What would I do with plenty of money & power? First I build a bomb shelter, then think about it.
Oh yeah, TT-0, just supposing I do have a scar on my left leg, *exactly* where would it be located? And wouldn't my cousins' brother just be another cousin?
You got me on the pocket change. If one were not trying to prove anything I guess they would have left their wallet in the future. But doesn't that mean that you would have to bring some antique money back here with you? Like when I go to France I can buy Franks when I get there. But if one were to exchange 2036 dollars for 2000 dollars ..... well lets just say they wouldn't be going anywhere for a while.
Ok, so gold is gold and that would solve the exchange problem.
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earthship
Junior Member posted 15 December 2000 02:26
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TT 0
Time - I don't believe it actually exists. Or rather, it exists as a series of "now moments" for eternity (that's a paradox if i ever saw one).
My question is; SHOULD we try to avoid this pending calamity (ww3) in our future? It seems that to bring about true change, some growing pains are needed to be experienced.
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 16 December 2000 02:48
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To- Trintius
.....Damn straight...!!!
(laughs)
Operation Domination is in action!!
P.S----To any American posting here...
Exactly how many Americans voted for the president out of the entire U.S.A?
Thanks for your...(ahem)..."time"
Dr.P.Light
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pamela
Member posted 16 December 2000 03:56
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Hey! Hows come nobody but me has taken the time to answer timetraveler_0's questions?
Do you really think that is fair?
He has tried to answer all of our questions.
he only asked ten. we have asked him alot.
shadow answered one.
sincerely,
pamela
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djayr42
Member posted 16 December 2000 17:08
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Some answers for TT_0:
1. According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on choosing a President and why?
I would say that the senate could use article 1 section 3 and appoint a president pro tem. or they can use the 20th amendment section 3. this could have been used in the recent case and a run off election could have been done.
2. Do you think the Electoral College should be continued?
Yes, it can disagree with the popular vote. I thought the popular vote was more democratic.
3. Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written?
To preserve order and protect the people and to give them a sense of participation in the formation of policy in government.
4. What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights?
It seems as though I suffer from being myopic as well, the right to bear arms is all I ever heard. I think it has been taken out of context as an excuse to have a gun and do anything you want with it. I think there should be some sort of responsibility amendment.
5. Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor?
I thought it was the tobacco industry.
6. Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and development companies?
Other major power companies, P.G.+E, Con Edison. Dow Chemical also is in there.
7. Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see yourself doing?
Two things. Manufacturing electric cars - the right way. Research in my own lab.
8. What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time without stopping?
Along time ago, 15 miles - a walk-a-thon for muscular dystrophy. More recently, 1 mile to and from work. I like to see the stars in the early morning while going to work.
9. What is the longest period of time you went without food?
7 days, just to see if I could. 24 hours no water no food, 168 hours no sleep. Not in that order and not all at once :-)
10. Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?
Not sure on this one. I think it has something to do with un-purified water. You would need to boil the water or add a purifying agent to it.
Hows that Pam? :-))
[This message has been edited by djayr42 (edited 16 December 2000).]
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pamela
Member posted 16 December 2000 21:04
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djayr42,
Ok,.. I feel a little better now. )
-pamela
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Trintius
unregistered posted 16 December 2000 23:10
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quote:
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Originally posted by Dr Light
Exactly how many Americans voted for the president out of the entire U.S.A?
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Shouldn't be 'how many Americans voted for the correct president
Amazing country though, they've proved -
- They can't design ballot papers
- They can't read ballot papers
- They can't use ballot papers
- They can't count
- They don't want to count
- They file law suits against each other because they can't count
- It takes them 2 months to elect a head of state
- Their head of state can't read ballot papers or count
- etc etc etc
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Time02112
Member posted 17 December 2000 17:21
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What ever happened to "Exentuate The Positive" ??
Frankly, I've heard enough negativity as to what we "Cannot" do, or what others have "Failed" to do. Why not discuss what we "Can" do, or what we can attempt to do that may lead to success in spite of all these failures?
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pamela
Member posted 17 December 2000 20:24
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Trintius:
America may have some problems ,as all countries do, but its still a great country.
its a beautiful country.
I always liked this popular song:
"I am proud to be an American
where atleast I know Im free
and I honor those that fought
to give that right to me.
And I'd gladly stand up next to them
and defend her still today,
There aint no country like it,
God bless the USA!"
Its unethical to down someone elses country infront of them. Almost everybody is proud of their own countries. no matter what has happened in the past.Iam sure you are proud of Australia. Changes may need to be made here but I still love America.
I agree with you Time02112 I would much rather think on the positive.
sincerely,
pamela
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Shadow
unregistered posted 17 December 2000 20:40
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TT-0
I think you know very well the answers to the questions you have asked. You just want to guage the quality of our replies, or just remind us that we SHOULD be up to speed on our constitutional rights and responsibilities.
A young person should want to survive and live for better days ahead. At some point, however, an older person will realize, especially in the face of disaster, that better days are NOT on the horizon.......ever. What you are forcasting for 95% of the present population is 20 years of hell followed by survivors in the rubble. I've already put in my 40 year shift of work and worry. Why should we fret over politics on our way to slaughter? Isn't that like telling the Captain of the Titanic, that all he has to do to save the ship is to back up really fast after the collision?
It was obvious 5 to 10 YEARS ago that we've been SOLD OUT. For us, the game is over. I should offer an excuse for apathy? It should do for a reason at least. Actually TT-O, maybe in you we can see that eventually SOMEBODY finds their friggin guts and puts an end to the madness.
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pamela
Member posted 17 December 2000 23:38
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Don't give up shadow. even in the midst of caos there is always hope. our end doesnt have to be like his end.
there are some people even as we speak that are actively making a time machine.
If this outcome for us would actually be true we have time on are side now.
the outcome of this time is UNKNOWN.
If there is one timetraveler.. there are many.
we can change the future, Shadow.
next comes the brave souls that are willing to try.
as he said when he uses his machine that going to another time line or dieing is both equally accepted.
How brave are we? I am not afraid of dieing.
I have done it before.
When the time comes....I will go.
I will be willing to go and make it right.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 18 December 2000).]
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 18 December 2000 01:23
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To Trintius,
You do not realise how long i laughed after reading that post but let me assure you I found it.... mildly ammusing.
Thank you.
I will be back with more questions for T-T0 later in the week
Dr.P.Light
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Fast
Member posted 19 December 2000 09:53
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for all we know,it was TT-0 who indirectly started the war.perhaps the TT-0 who traveled to HIS timeline was captured and they assimilated his General Electric Time Machine which spurred the war?
when did he say the war started,btw.
Fast Out
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Shadow
unregistered posted 19 December 2000 11:28
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Pamela,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I do lean to the dark side. It comes from hours, days, and years of "partial successes".
I'm sorry to hear that you keep dieing all over the place. Fortunately I haven't had a lot of practice at it lately. But do keep up the good work, you are the heart & soul of this board. I rank no higher than jestser and deservidly so.
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pamela
Member posted 19 December 2000 15:12
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Shadow,
I know you are much more than that! I have read your postings on this forum. They are very intelligent and insightful.
I don't keep dying over and over but I have had a near death experience. And it has erased my fear of death. I know there is much more to this world than what we can see.
sincerely,
pamela
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pamela
Member posted 20 December 2000 01:24
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I think it was interesting as I was reading my NEWSWEEK I received today on page 55. in the article "36 days:The Fallout"
were these words in a box amongst all the
little boxes of pictures.
"After this story,
what could come
next to keep the
spoiled media
beast interested?
civil war? "
just had to share that with you.
sincerely,
pamela
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Fast
Member posted 20 December 2000 19:50
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last night i felt terrible,and had a fever.i fell asleep at 9PM and slept until 2PM this afternoon.
during my sleep,i had a dream of me,in my English Class.my english teacher brought her child to school.her child had been a government experiment gone wrong.they had tried to combine oranges and a baby to make an orange baby.her baby had orange hair with a blue stripe down the middle,and had orange skin and orange-blue spiral eyes.my grandmother was also in the dream and she said we had all came from potatos anyway.my mother was there too and she said 'why are there still potatos here if we came from them,and why would we be eating them?'
then i woke up...
is it possible to have acid flashbacks while your asleep??
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mokrie dela
Member posted 21 December 2000 01:44
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Yes
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DaViper
unregistered posted 21 December 2000 04:00
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"Paradox", as an English word, has it's origins in Latin and Greek.
But alas, it is still just a word in any language, regardless of how it is spoken, ancient or modern. And thus a verbal utterance that represents the conveyance of a concept. As all words are.
Generally, it refers to the "idea" of the existence of a problem that has no solution.
But again alas, this is nothing but an invention of the mind of man. Nothing that actually occurs in the Universe.
There are no paradoxes in the Universe.
The so called "grandfather" paradox has not, does not, and cannot ever occur simply because the situation that defines it is not possible in the first place. There is no past where/when your "grandfather" is "alive" for you to ever encounter. Any more than there is a future where your "grandson" travels back from to encounter you.
If there is "Time Travel", it requires much more sophisticated concepts than this simple non-existant "problem".
And...
The so called "twins" paradox is actually not a paradox at all once one understands the idiosyncrasies of Relativity. Many think they do, but few actually do. Those who consider the "twins" paradox to actually BE a paradox, are among those who don't.
Hint: Think about what constitutes a "year", as opposed to watching the hands of your wristwatch move. Remember, "year" is again a word that conveys the concept of a single revolution of the Earth around the Sun.
Both "twins, the Earthbound one AND the travelling one will still have lived in a Universe where the Earth went around the Sun the SAME number of times.
The traveler's BIOLOGICAL clock would run slower, as do physical clocks under the circumstances, but the Earth will have orbited the Sun the SAME number of times from BOTH of their points of view! Even while the traveler's watch ran slower.
Time dilation, as a proven effect of differing relative velocities may be an unusual idiosyncracy inherent in the properties of relativity, but...
There is no paradox here.
And it most certainly does not constitute Time travel in and of itself.
There is no paradox ANYWHERE in the Universe for that matter.
How could there be?
The very concept is itself absurd. A mind game. A modernist mythology. Right up there with Jupiter governing the Universe from Mt. Olympus, or Noah's Ark.
You believe in the "Great Flood" perhaps. Gee, where did all the water come from? (Descended from nowhere out of space?) Where did it go? (Evaporated back into nothingness into space?) Do you have any idea how much water it would take to cover the Earth up to the top of Mt. Everest and beyond? Or how thick the cloud cover would have to be that contained the water that constituted the rain that had to have fallen to make a flood THAT big?
About as much as it takes to drown the idea that "paradoxes" actually exist, from my calculation.
Peace.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:11
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 5)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 21 December 2000 10:59
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DaViper
Very interesting argument but I have a couple of questions. You described the word paradox as, “…it refers to the "idea" of the existence of a problem that has no solution.” Actually, the #1 definition I read in the American Heritage Dictionary is “…a seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true”,
Also, what exactly is your definition of “time travel”? I was taught that time travel is strictly a local observation that can only be measured by the experience of an individual or single particle. Under that definition, the “twin paradox” (time dilation due to acceleration or gravity) and even sleeping can be considered time travel. You appear to be arguing against dematerialization and/or spacelike trips under the limits of special relativity in a single worldline.
I do agree that the “grandfather paradox” is not possible simply because the classic problem is presented as an observer’s issue magnified to a universal issue. Your statements about observation are correct when you isolate the experiences to a single worldline. However, the reason there are no paradoxes is because the universe doesn’t care how we react to its handy-work. In a Universe made up of infinite worldliness (superuniverse), everything is possible and has a 100% probability, therefore…no paradoxes.
“You believe in the "Great Flood" perhaps. Gee, where did all the water come from?”
I believe the explanation for the “great flood” stories originate with the changes that occurred near the Mediterranean at the end of the last ice age. Even on this worldline, there is a great deal of evidence to support the fact that sea levels did change radically in isolated areas worldwide. I also heard someplace that if the ice mass on Antarctica melted today, sea level worldwide would rise about 100 feet. I’m not exactly sure that’s true but still… Mt. Everest might be a bit of a stretch.
I do however agree with you that there are no physical paradoxes but for the opposite reasoning.
Peace to you also.
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mokrie dela
Member posted 21 December 2000 18:42
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Also flooding could easily occur with monsoon rains lasting anywhere past 5 days in a region of low ground. And don't forget in those days, "the world" was defined as that small region only. These people had never been to Switzerland! (Hi Time, missed you you ole rattle snake.)
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Time02112
Member posted 22 December 2000 12:06
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Anyone ever heard of "Pangia"
it referrs to when the earth, or "Gia" was once pne singl large body of land.
when I find more info on this latter, I will edit this post, and include the links. meanwile if anyone else wishes to make any additional comments about pangia, and how the water vovered the remaining 3/4 of the land mass around the geosphere, please by all means, share with us what you have to offer.
What do you suppose would happen during the next "Great Flood" now that the former Pangia is broken into the current continetal land structures of today's earth?
~just a thought~
p)'i4q4
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mokrie dela
Member posted 22 December 2000 15:28
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That's right Time, I also heard that origionally the continent of Africa was connected to America by a connecting land mass. I believe that's part of the Atlantis theory, that it was the connecting land. I know there are some incredible things underwater off of Biminy. (can't spell it or find it) There are huge greek collums with huge hands at the top holding some sort of ball. Also what looks like roads made of hand cut flat stones that would break a fork lift. What I would'nt give to time travel to before that sunk and see it it all it's glory. It's must have been beautiful beyond comprehension.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 22 December 2000 21:16
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I had a flashback once, not too long ago, just a few seconds ago in fact. It had to be a flashback. I saw a former Governor of Texas, Bush I believe, saying "I wish I were a dictator but this is not a dictatorship!" Also he mentioned something to the effect of "You are aware of the fact that any resession that may come along next year or so, is Bill's fault, really." FWEEEEET! Hey pal, can I intrest you in a little tax cut? Very popular in this election year you know. (Hey babe you wanna count some ballots? Your dimples are soooo cute." "Chad, I think I might be pregnant.") If I'm laid off do I still get my multimillion dollar tax cut, huh Gorge? Huh Huh? George? GEORGE!!??........".just wait your turn sir, the President Elect is busy playing with his yo-yo right now." This only thing missing out of national politics righ now is a Ryder rental truck full of whoopie cushions.
Yes, speaking of The Flood. The real flood can't hold a candle to the flood of bull**** that is commin down the pike these days. Are they TRYING to whizz us off, or do they deserve an Oscar for acting as thought they were. There are other possible explainations. Like Terminal Stupidity. Or the desire for population reduction (you). Or how about creepy aliens, time traveling spooks, or maybe even that half spoiled turkey sandwich you had for lunch.
Of coarse the screamingly hysterical part of it is that they act like we ain't supposed to notice. Right. "Waiter, check please!"
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mokrie dela
Member posted 22 December 2000 21:35
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It's ok, we can wait while you extract that wild hair from your butt.
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pamela
Member posted 22 December 2000 22:59
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DaViper,
Just because you cannot figuere out where the water came from for the Great Flood
is not a good enough reason to conclude that it never took place.
In the ancient lore and legend of every culture you will find a story of a disasterous flood. These accounts vary but in distant parts of the world these stories agree on one point. far back in history there was a catacylmsmic flood which wiped out all but a handful of people.
From the indians of north and south america to the Islanders of the Pacific and from the chinese to atleast 40 aborigional races we find the elements of a great flood described.
Geologists of today all over the Earth find a layer of sediment which gives evidence of a worldwide flood.
There are several different theories of where the water might have come from.
Here is the one I have heard:
The Earth had quite a different climate before and after the flood.
for in Geneisis 2:5-6 it states that the lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth...but there went up a mist from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
They argued that Genesis 1:6 described God seperating the waters on the earth from the waters above the Earth. which could describe a canopy of water vapor.Our Earth could have been in effect a giant canopy enclosed garden watered by gentle mists which came out of the ground from the reservoirs of water below the surface.
If the Earth before the flood had been surrounded by a canopy of water vapor above the Troposphere it would have compressed the air beneath and raised the average atmospheric pressure, just how much would depend on how much water the canopy contained.
This increased pressure could have resulted in a greater oxidation rate, a much more efficient metabolism and stronger, healthier people.
The sheilding of water vapor canopy could have eliminated almost all genetic mutation from the harmful solar radiation.
there would be benefits of living under increased atmospheric pressure. During the aquanaut program it was discovered a cut on a aquanauts hand healed completely in 24 hours while submerged in a diving bell.
back then the current land mass was joined together in a hugh continent.
The Earth before the flood was a single land mass riding on a blanket of superheated steam and with an overhead curtain of water vapor protecting it from harmful solar rays.
After the flod the vapor canopy was gone the Earths climate was changed.
Atmospheric pressure dropped to what it is today.
without the water vapor canopy the Earth received more radiation from the sun and genetic mutations occured. mans lifespan was greatly reduced. and they obviosly didnot live as long after the flood.
the other theory that goes with it sometimes is "the fountains of the deep" were also let lose.Gen 7:11 Which combined with the collapse of the water vapor canopy. produced a great amount of water.the ripping apart of the crust would have triggered tsunamis of unparalleled magnitude, sweeping the Earth with walls of water from the existing oceans.
The initial rupture of the earths crust would have spewed a tremendous jet of super heated steam high above the earths ionosphere. the vapor blanket resting on the air above the Earth would have been overwhelmed by the intensity and heat of this supersonic blast and would have collapsed as sheets of worldwide rain.
The jet of water which gushed high above the earths atmosphere would have encountered frigid temperatures converting the water almost instantly to ice crystals.
When the water vapor canopy which covered the Earth up to that point collapsed in rain, ending the green house effect, the temperatures on earth would have been reduced to much the same as they are today. immediately after the flood, the ice crystals formed high above the earths stratosphere would have fallen, dumping immense quantities of ice on the earths polar regions and northern latiitudes. This would explain an enigma which has long perplexed the discovery of animals which had been quick frozen in siberia and alaska some still with undigested food in their stomaches and mouths.
there had to be an abrupt and extremely sudden change in temperature, from near tropical to extreme cold within a matter of minutes.
I kept this in my mind. and a couple of years ago i saw an article in the newspaper where scientists had found a couple miles long of watervapor in the upper atmosphere that was forming over a specific area and they didnt know what it was doing up there. If i find the article i will post it I did cut it out and save it.
nobody knows for sure where the water came from and can only theorize but there was plenty of evidence that it took place. I have read several scientific theories of the water vapor canopy. I could go on and on but i just dont have time. I have several books that mention it. I just pulled a few things out of the books for you to think on.This is just one of several theories I have heard.
sincerely,
pamela
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mokrie dela
Member posted 23 December 2000 12:31
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Wow, what can be added to that! I do recall reading that "radiolaria", a fossilized form of tiny sea life has been found in layers of dirt at high elevations in the darndest places around the earth. I know nothing of bibical things but when you find petrofied itty bitty fishies in mountain ranges, something incredible happened involving a whole lot of water.
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earthship
Junior Member posted 23 December 2000 12:49
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Thanks for that Pamela.
Has anyone read "An Ascension Handbook," channeled material from Serapis, by Tony Stubbs ? Lots of interesting ideas in there.
warren
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pamela
Member posted 23 December 2000 19:02
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Well ,I found the article but unfortunately I didnot cut out the date with it.
It was in the Repository Newspaper . the author is Randolph E. Schmid
associate press writer. here it is word for word:
VAPOR FLOWS FOUND IN THE ATMOSPHERE
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WASHINGTON- Massive rivers of vapor, some carrying as much water as the Amazon, have been discovered in the lower atmosphere.
Reginald E. Newell, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said thursday he was surprised to find the flows while analyzing satellite data.
His findings are reported in Geophysical Research Letters, published by the American Geophysical Union.
A half-dozen vapor rivers carry water from the equator toward the poles in relatively narrow streams, Newell explained in a telephone interview.
"I expected to see things following air masses, which usually have much larger horizontal widths. The fact that it's concentrated was a surprise to us. " said Newell. The flows "look like a river," he said.
The newly discovered rivers do follow these general principles, but move the moisture in narrow streams rather than having it spread out over a large air mass.
They seem to generally trend toward the poles, Newell explained, though he has found a couple of cases in which the stream encounters a typhoon,"gets entangled in itself and goes back equatorwards."
The rivers also display waves in their movement, he said, though why this should occur is not clear.
The researchers calculated the length of some of these rivers of vapor at as much as 4,800 miles with a width of 420 to 480 miles.
What does this mean to the world's weather and climate? Newell and his associates are trying to figure that out.
"We haven't solved the relation between these rivers and fronts, highs and lows and the rest of the synoptic (weather) pattern," Newell said.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 23 December 2000 20:08
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Morkie!
Hair extracted. I'm much better now. Thank you.
Hear no evil. see no evil, speak no evil. WHEN will I EVER learn?
WE do digress from time travel don't we. The earth is going to fall over any minute now........scratch that.........any TIME now.
My theory on Earth Changes was dismissed because it "rested on shakey ground". I too will wait for a time.
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mokrie dela
Member posted 24 December 2000 12:14
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Shadow, Don't feel bad, I live on shakey ground myself. As they used to say, you threw a hissy fit. HAHA We take turns on this board. Your always interesting with or without hairs; and your opinion in always important wether provable or not. Heck, I never shut up and I can't prove anything myself.
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djayr42
Member posted 24 December 2000 15:12
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Well as far as I can tell, it seems that only two of us here are willing to answer TT_0's questions. (Three - Shadow answered at least one question.) What's wrong? Are you afraid of being judged in some way? Most of the people who post here on this forum seem to enjoy playing around (and sometimes bickering and putting each other down). So what is the problem? It seems as though when you find out someone is observing you and says so, you clam up. Yes I know that implies that you believe his claims or you don't think he is worth responding to. Yet most of you will take the time to bicker. You could just tell him that you don't want to answer any of his questions. You can't even do that instead you will ignore those questions and write a lengthy reply to someone else just to get your point of view across. Well that is what TT_0 is asking for. Why do you find so hard to answer him? It implies that you believe him more then your willing to admit. And you don't like the idea of being classified by an observer from a future time. I think he is right, on the whole, "sheep" - bickering sheep. Ok, you can blast me by being honest in answering TT_0 questions. (That is the only basting that is acceptable.)
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pamela
Member posted 24 December 2000 16:52
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Hi djayr42!
Actually there was another man who answered all of the questions and sent them to me to forward to timetravler_0 in private.
which I did.
wether you beleived he was real or not,
I think it was only common curtesy to answer the questions after he answered ours. and that had to take a lot of his time to answer all of our questions and debating on how much he wanted to share. when every word you say can have consequences.
Its no big deal ,he was just curious about how we feel about things as we are about him.
Maybe people are just too paranoid.
It is kind of interesting though...is this how we would treat a person from another world if we ever met one?
Well anyway..hope everyone has a great Christmas!!!!!!
sincerely,
Pamela
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Shadow
unregistered posted 25 December 2000 21:27
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TT-O
I'm surprised that they haven't cought you yet. I'd give dollars-to-donuts that the US military is into time travel already....since the mid sixties I'd guess. Not that its any of my business, nor do I want it to be. Maybe they don't care. Maybe there is already intertime treaties of noninterference.
If it doesn't make it less convient for the rich to ripp-off the masses it could well remain a non-issue.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 26 December 2000 03:00
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Timetravel_0:
I think we're probably closer than you think here. I'll certainly buy your explanation of time travel as purely relative to the observer. I'm also not sure we're that far apart on the reason there are no paradoxes. (Your Dictionary definition is of course the correct one, I was merely making a simplification of it for my own purposes.)
As to the possibility of multiple universes, well, it gets used a lot to try to explain things that can't be explained but to me it's a cop out due to lack of evidence and the very fact that it GETS used so much as a way to explain that which is otherwise currently un-explainable. I need more evidence. The existence of multiple universes leads me to believe that if there is more than one of them, there must therefore be an infinite number of them. If there are an infinite number of them, then everything that can happen, has already. I dislike this theory for two reasons. 1. It destroys the necessity for free will thereby making all descisions made by choice inherently moot. 2. It goes against "Occam's Razor". The principle that the simplest explaination is probably the best one. I really don't see the Universe needing to be so complicated as to require infinite universes just to solve the concept of paradoxes.
Peace.
I thought it interesting that my little "Flood" analogy sparked such conversation.
By all means many cultures refer to "Great Floods" in their history. And Local phenomenea ARE the reason these persist in mythology.
Pamela, you've been reading the propaganda of the "Young Earth Creationists" I see. Their web sites are all over the place. Unfortunately, these theories they propound are not only NOT POSSIBLE, but have long since proven to be so.
Unfortunately many of these, like the so-called "Dr." Kent Hovind have fabricated their own "degrees" in higher education. Hovind for instance, started a "University" in his living room, awarded himself a "Doctorate" in Theology, and uses this to tout his self professed "expertise" in geological and biologocal matters.
The "Vapor Cloud" myth is a fairly old one trotted out to answer the "Where did the water come from?" question. But YOUR explainations are right out of the Creationists handbook 101. And equally mythological as they are without foundation or acceptance by the Scientific Community at large.
Think about it. If it never rained before the flood, what did plants live on? As to the Vapor Cloud it self, it's already been calculated that to produce the water necessary for world wide full deluge, the cloud would be so thick as to block out the sun entirely. Meaning it MUST have been dark always before the so called "Great Flood". Preposterous. Every Creationists argument on this issue is totally debunk-able. Not just because it isn't so, but because it can be PROVEN to be not so.
May I suggest you do some browsing around the various Talk Origins websites where the real scientists hang out and you'll begin to see how truly silly some of these Literal Scripture interpretations really are.
Not that I'm arguing against (or for) the existence of God, just that if you want to view the Bible as an informative and inspirational document, may I suggest that you at least study the differences where metaphor is used instead of an intended depiction of reality.
Genesis has TWO depictions or accounts of Creation. The Creationsts won't tell you about the second one because it is contradictory to THEIR view. And supports the concept of Evolution. It's called selective intepretation. And they engage in it all the time.
Or as the old song goes,
"Some Things That You Libel,
To Read In The Bible,
It Ain't necessarily So."
Good luck, and
Peace.
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pamela
Member posted 26 December 2000 11:01
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DaViper,
I thought I already answered the questions you posed on this particular theory to me in my last posting. I apologize I didnt have more time to post more info on it. It was only one theory out of many that I have heard. I mentioned this one because of the article I read two years ago in the city newspaper.
The book the info came from was "A scientific approach to biblical mysteries."by Robert W. Faid.I have another book called "Beyond Star Wars."which I cannot locate at this moment. which is a scientifically based book discussing the many theories of ancient mysteries around the world. and it also mentions the water vapor canopy. both of them mention the rain falling for forty days and nights from the canopy and the rest of the water coming from the fountains of the earth being broken up.
I have never heard of the "young earth creationists." what is their web site? I would like to check out their theories.
One thing is certain though, DaViper, there was a flood for the evidence was left in the Earth. How it happened rests now in theories because noone knows for sure.
You know when it comes to Ancient Events most of the time all you ever have are theories because none of us were there at the time. and many things are not in existance at this time that were there in their time.Theories are formed and based on evidence found at the time and from piecing together writings or anything else found from the time period.or things found in the Earth.
someday we shall all know the truth. Maybe someday somebody will go back and "check it out" and see for themself. I am not afraid to study anything or research any theory. I piece it all together as I go keeping everything in mind. I see things from many different angles. and eventually the truth will be known.
Peace to you always.
-Pamela
(Robert W. Faid-a nuclear scientist and consultant to the nuclear power industry, has developed patented processes which have been used to protect nuclear power plants around the world against earthquakes and flooding.)
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 26 December 2000).]
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DaViper
unregistered posted 27 December 2000 15:01
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Hey Pamela if you want to believe in mythology as opposed to science and fact it's OK with me. To each his/her own so to speak.
I prefer knowledge however over the fabricated ideas of those who adjust theory to suit ther particulat religous beliefs.
Sure there have been floods. There's probably one going on right now somewhere. But...
AY NO TIME was there ever a flood that covered the entire Earth. There isn't enough water for there to ever have been. And no hocus pocus "vapor cloud" that could ever contain the amount of water needed to produce a rainfall of that proportion has EVER covered the earth.
But if you choose to believe this, fine. All the belief in the world cannot make it so.
The whole comment was an analogy in the first place.
I thought we were discussing time travel paradoxes. That's the title of the board anyway.
Peace.
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 27 December 2000 17:00
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Sorry I have been out for a while. Does anyone no whether the forces exerted by a universal flooding could produce the force needed to seperate all the continents in in a period of a couple of months. Given the amount of water on the earth now if the land masses were but one land mass and there was one huge earth quake that cause all the land masses to spread at a constant velocity to their present location in a period of three months or so would the kenetic force mediated through the water cause universal flooding by generating huge waves of water covering the land. How fast would a land mass have to travel accross the earth for there in order to cause the ocean in the direction of travel flow up and over the entire continent of the united states from east coast to west coast? How hi would the wall of water be? Does the needed velocity match the biblical time period for the flood? If the continents were to have traveled at the nessecary velocity to cause the water to wave over from the pacific ocean to the atlantic ocean for period of time that Noah's flood was stated to have lasted in the bible could the continents have reached their present location from the pangea in that period of time at the calculated velocity. If not how far could the continents have traveled. How much heat would have been generated by the friction of the water over the continents surface if the water flowed over the earth. Would it have been enough to produce steem at the calculated pressure? If all the above proves true then is it possible find evidence in the soil for such events? If anyone is motivated enough to run a computer simulation and plug in all the variables in order to calculate the above hypothesis I would appreciate it. I donnot have enough computer knowlege to run the simulation. Whoever comes up with the answers to the questions above has the write to the discovery naturally so have at it.
God bless you all and Peace,
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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shadow
unregistered posted 27 December 2000 19:35
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to rgrunt
a computer sim ain't going to predict ancient earth geologic changes any better than it can predict next years weather
go to the library, open a textbook on geology and all your answers will there, indexed and catagorized
alternatively there is a cool website on the subject, I believe it is www.tomato-wizzard.com
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Shadow
unregistered posted 27 December 2000 20:06
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Pamela
Nine out of ten theories are eventually proven false. Let the people who make them up defend them. The Earths history is unimaginably long and complex. It may indeed be harder to find something that has NOT happened over its 5 billion years.
There a million ways to be wrong and only one way to be right. Daviper will run circles around you because he's got this million to one rule on his side.
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pamela
Member posted 27 December 2000 21:41
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Shadow,
Then he will get VERY DIZZY! hehehehehe
I am not here to defend or prove anything. I simply mentioned one theory out of many I had heard.
I dont immediately disregard a theory because it may clash with any beleif system I may or may not have. he's just plain silly! heheheeh. but it was fun!
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pamela
Member posted 27 December 2000 21:52
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Shadow,
p.s. I cant get your tomato-wizard link to work! And I wanted to see it!
sincerely,
pamela
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DaViper
unregistered posted 28 December 2000 05:11
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The laws of physics have nothing to do with a belief system.
They are what they are whether one believes them or not. All the old belief that the world was flat didn't make it so.
All the belief that the earth was the center of the Solar System and Universe couldn't make it so.
And all the belief in the world that a "universal flood" EVER existed can't change the laws of physics that make such an event utterly impossible.
Where did all the water go when this "flood" was over? Evaporate into space? Sorry not possible under the laws of physics that are governed by the very gravity of the earth itself. Water which is heavier than air, evaporated into the vacume of space and left the earth's atmosphere behind? Sorry no dice. It just doesn't work like that as any meteorologist can tell you.
The story is based on local phenomenae at the time it originated. It probably looked to the inhabitants at the time that the "whole world" was flooded but the reality of physics is that it is not, never was, and can never be possible. (Barring collisions with several thousand Comets that is. Which would wipe out all life, change the entire structure of the mantle itself and cause evolution to start all over again.)
There is NO evidence this has ever happened in this manner.
The belief stems from the desire to insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible that the earth is but 6-8 thousand years old.
But it isn't just that meteorology, geology, palentology, astronomy, biology, physics, quantum mechanics or cosmology each show that this is impossible, it's that ALL these sciences agree thru related and intertwined studies that the aforementioned is simply not possible.
If one wants to toss aside ALL of these studies and the verifiable evidence they produce in favor of a mytology based on a single text that has NO proof, than I guess one is free to do so.
But an Ostrich is free to stick his head in the sand also.
Peace.
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pamela
Member posted 28 December 2000 06:08
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"They are what they are whether one believes them or not. All the old belief that the world was flat didn't make it so."
Isnt that amazing? but yet thousands of years before they came to the conclusion that the earth was flat it was already stated that it was indeed round!
Isaiah 40:22 "...the circle of the Earth.." heheh
For some reason this subject is an offense to you so I will not discuss it with you any longer.
All science also agreed that nothing could go faster than the speed of light. Scientists beleived and accepted this theory as true for years even based other theories on it. but in the light of new evidence the theory was proved wrong.(Just this year)
I want to think beyond the current theories. For I see them for what they are..theories only, not concrete facts.Thats why I like to research many different theories and maybe even come up with some of my own.
I respect your beleifs and theorys as I do all others.
peace.
In search of truth always,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 28 December 2000).]
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 28 December 2000 14:36
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Not to create dissention for I am a man of science but in my own town there were discovered dinosuar bones that were carbon dated to be 80 million years old. The bones were discovered in a farming area close to bisbee AZ. Now a christian farmer went home slaughtered one of his cows took a bone from it and snuck into the escavation site one that night and buried the cow bone so that the scientists would discover it the following day. And the scientists did. They carbon dated the cow bone and their results stated that the bone was over 50 million years old. Further more the scientist identified the cow bone as being from a dinosuar. They presented their findings that week and the farmer came publicly to dispute them pointing at his cow bone saying that the bone was not 50 million years old that and preached creation. Thge scientists debated claiming that they carbon dated the bone and this evidence proved them wrong. The farmer stated that the evidence couldn't be right. The scientists argued with the man. And finally the man stated "that bone can't be 50 million years old, I snuck that bone in yesterday it's my cow bone My cow ain't 50 million years old." everyone laughed and the story spread throughout our town and the scientist left our town in shame and completely humiliated and bewildered. They could no longer use their arguements to sustain the hoax of evolution for in one fowl swoop by a genius farmer their entire arguement was broaght to ruins.
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tomboy
unregistered posted 28 December 2000 20:50
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Hey TT_0
Can u take some photos' of the future while ur there?
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pamela
Member posted 29 December 2000 11:44
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Timetraveler_0~
When it is beginning to rain....
it is time to go rainbow gazing.
~pamela
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DaViper
unregistered posted 29 December 2000 16:15
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Pamela:
I'm not sensitive about it at all. And I also respect the religious beliefs of others. (I get a kick out of some of the stories I see preffered from time to time.) :-) But when hypothesis are profferred to suport religious belief that can be proven to be scientifically incorrect, one needs to realize that while religion is a personal matter, one cannot cancel the laws of physics in order to cling to beliefs that simply are not true.
The only people that see conflict between religion and science are staunch religionists. Sagan, Einstein et al were both believers in God. Hawking is a pure Agnostic. Which means that while he does not firmly accept the existence of God, he doesn't reject it either.
Science is not attempting to disprove God (some scientists MAY be atheistic) but Science itself takes no stand on the existence of God. He either is, or He isn't. To science, it matters not either way.
Hey, maybe God DID create the Earth. But it's a simple fact that He did not create it in what WE refer to as "6 days" as is metaphorically described in Genesis.
If one's faith is truly strong, all the scientific FACT in the world shouldn't be able to shake it. Even when preposterous claims are made but such as 'rgrunt' above.
His story is an old one and is without basis in fact. It has been circulated by the "Creationists" for many years. If 'rgrunt' did just a little research, he would find that CARBON dating is not used in Paleontology for dating things from MILLIONS of years ago. Other radio-isotope methods are used. There are 5 all in all. Each has it's own period of effectiviness depending on the half-life or decay rate of the isotope involved.
No scientist would even TRY to date a 50 million year old sample with Carbon dating. And any story that claims someone did is pure fabrication and bunk since no scientist would ever claim that he has.
By all means, please keep searching for the truth. But don't take someone else's word for anything. Do the research. The web is full of good science and "snake oil" salesmen like 'rgrunt'.
I wish you peace and success in your search for truth.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 29 December 2000 16:29
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P. S. Pamela:
By the way, think about this.
Physicists for quite some time now have understood radioactive decay quite well. In fact so well, we've been able to construct clocks based of the decay of various elements.
Since these clocks are SO accurate, they are used by NASA to time events in the travel of our space vehicles. The precision involved in sending the Pioneer, Voyager, etc Spacecraft to the outer planets for picture taking is so intricate that only atomic clocks will do.
If our understanding of radioactive decay was flawed, then these clocks would not work as we intend them too, and those planetary fly-by events we all remember NEVER took place since the craft would have missed the targets by millions of miles.
Mr. 'rgrunt' has some homework to do.
By the way, Evolution is observable not only in Nature but reproducable in the laboratory. Those who claim it doesn't exist are either too afraid to admit they are wrong, or just plain too stubborn to accept reality.
It's a scary thing to be proven wrong. Once one realizes it, one is stuck with the idea that other things one believes in MAY be wrong also. This is hard for some people to accept since it shakes the foundation of their whole belief system.
But an open mind and a willingness to actually learn will always get one through the tough spots.
I have no idea how or why the Universe came into existence, but I'm not going to worry about it. And I'm for sure NOT going to buy into ideas of how it happened that simply are not so, and can be proven to BE not so.
I bid you a good day.
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Fast
Member posted 29 December 2000 17:46
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im sure that a group of scientists could tell the difference between a 'fresh' cow bone and a fossilized 50 Million Year Old Dinosaur bone...
Fast Out
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DaViper
unregistered posted 29 December 2000 19:02
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Fast:
Yup! (heh heh).
Without even having to resort to quantum decay timelines.
Fossilization is a process where actual organic tissue is replaced by inorganic mineral deposits leaving a remnant of the original in it's original form, but with no organic material intact.
In short, a true "fossil" is actually a form of stone, (like the "trees" in the Petrified Forest), while a bone is...well, a bone!
Only a blind idiot couldn't tell the difference. (Actually, a "blind idiot" could weigh the two and tell the difference for that!)
Peace.
And EVERYONE have a Happy New year.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 29 December 2000 19:32
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P. S. S.
And finally just one more...
(Couldn't resist on this next-to-next-to-last-day before the TRUE millenium.)
To all:
For the sake of pure information and learning, may I present the following links which will hopefully lay to rest the question of the difference between metaphor and actual history in attempts to understand the writings in the Bible.
Here's what we know on:
THE AGE OF THE EARTH http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/apprage.htm
THE RELIABILITY OF RADIOMETRIC DATING http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8851/radiometric.html#reliability
...and since I brought up "Dr" (sic) Kent Hovind earlier, here's a link to some of his foolishness: http://www.onthenet.com.au/~stear/kent_hovind's_challenge.htm
(Please, please, take note of the arguments HE presents and truly foolish they are from a purly LOGICAL standpoint, even before you get to the science parts that show what a ignoramus he actually is.)
He's the SOURCE of much of the foolishness that the likes of the 'rgrunts' of the world are pushing on us in the name of "science".
Ha! LOL
and finally, some humor for you. (Shades of the type of stuff 'rgrunt' has posted above.) http://www.onthenet.com.au/~stear/icr_suckered_by_april_fool's_joke.htm
Enjoy all.....
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P.Light
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 04:10
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To Anyone reading this...
What happened to the man of the moment T-T-0?!
All of a sudden i come back to check on the state of the nation and i find all you people talking about "great floods" and carbon dating! LOL!
Quite ammusing!
Anyhoo...it would be nice if we focus on the topic people!
Cheers,
P.Light
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Trott
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 07:45
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Mr. O,
I just read your postings. Something did catch my eye. You mentioned that the physics behind time travel will be realized within the next year at CERN. Currently, the project being run at CERN is the LEP, the large electron positron collider. It was scheduled to be shut down this past November but was not due to some potential evidence of a missing component of the Standard Model, the Higgs Boson. As you may or may not know, the Higgs boson is the theorized mechanism by which particles acquire mass. I will not mention more of this but suffice it to say that I am aware that for an object to travel at the speed of light it would have to be massless(that is to say if the photon is in fact a massless spin 1 boson as assumed). But in order to tip the light cone, you would need to travel faster than light.
While I do believe that time is not as fragile as some colleagues believe, I do find it interesting that someone would attempt to contaminate the time stream before a point in time at which time travel is possible. Actually, all current feasible theories of time travel negate the possibility of travelling back beyond the point at which the time machine was constructed.
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in the know
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 09:40
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AH! Is that the official story then? When did Mr. O arrive at this board? Nov. 2, 2000 I see.
Hmmmm....then again, maybe it had absolutely nothing to do with the diagrams CERN received in Nov.---but then again----
you never know.
good day!
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 10:28
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(I think you know very well the answers to the questions you have asked. You just want to guage the quality of our replies, or just remind us that we SHOULD be up to speed on our constitutional rights and responsibilities.)
It would be nice to be able to remind everyone about their rights and responsibilities but I am not here to judge you. I am not capable of that nor would I want that in return. As you know, my interest is in history and in the paradox of thought. I do however, find it interesting how important the Constitution became to the average US citizen’s life, if even for a short moment.
(A young person should want to survive and live for better days ahead. At some point, however, an older person will realize, especially in the face of disaster, that better days are NOT on the horizon.......ever. What you are forcasting for 95% of the present population is 20 years of hell followed by survivors in the rubble. I've already put in my 40 year shift of work and worry. Why should we fret over politics on our way to slaughter? Isn't that like telling the Captain of the Titanic, that all he has to do to save the ship is to back up really fast after the collision?)
It saddens me that you do not realize your true worth as a keeper of information and experience. Perhaps the end that we fear will open your eyes to your true value as an individual. Young people need wisdom. The captain of the ship knows where the lifeboats are.
(When it is beginning to rain....
it is time to go rainbow gazing.)
I like the lyrics. They remind me of some other songs that are oldies but goodies from where I come from…anyone know these?
…gotta be home, by sunset. She asked me to giver her a ride, said she had to go, dropped her off by the trism through the atmosphere…by prism. Gotta keep movin , it was the human race to get away, sun bends light through a prism, she bent herself through the trism… …she pulls the lever and then bright light.
-- or this --
Waiting for bus number 99, goin’ to the store for hotdogs and wine when all of the sudden I felt real cold and wound up in the belly of a UFO... …Movin through the spheres at faster than light on our way to some planets that were out of sight… [well it had been 987 years in outer space when I got back, I couldn’t seem to find any of my friends to tell my interesting stories to.]
(Currently, the project being run at CERN is the LEP, the large electron positron collider. But in order to tip the light cone, you would need to travel faster than light. I do find it interesting that someone would attempt to contaminate the time stream before a point in time at which time travel is possible. Actually, all current feasible theories of time travel negate the possibility of travelling back beyond the point at which the time machine was constructed.)
I’m pretty sure they have a number of experiments going on at the same time at CERN. The one I’m referring to involves very high energies using protons. From my historical perspective on my worldline, I do recall the issue was a point of contention about 18 months ago or so. There were some scientists who thought the experiments were too dangerous to try. The time travel I refer to does not require faster than light travel and due to multiple world “reality”, paradoxes do not occur. Natural time machines do exist. Please check these web sites for the basics…on both ends of the scale.
http://www.leonllo.freeservers.com/blackworm.html http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Station/5763/time.html
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Trott
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 11:57
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Hi Mr.O,
It is true that CERN has 4 detectors/experiments but they are all centered around the LEP experiment. There are no experiments at CERN which deal with accelerating protons at this time. There is a planned experiment in 2005, when the Large Hadron collider takes over the tunnel at which the LEP is located. The experiment you refer to is not at CERN it is at RHIC in Brookhaven National Lab on Long Island, it is an attempt to create a quark gluon plasma, a form of matter which would have been present shortly after the big bang but before condensation of quarks into particles like protons and neutrons.
I am aware of the possibility of using wormholes to time travel, however you are still unable to travel back beyond the point of the creation of the wormhole. Even the Tipler cylinder does not allow a traveller to go back beyond the point at which the cylinder was made. It has been my view that in order to have controlled time travel you would need to have a description of the quantum structure of space-time, otherwise I do not see how you could undertake the calculations that would be needed. One reason it is not certain that a wormhole could be used to travel through time is because it is believed that quantum fluctations around the mouth of the wormhole would act to collapse it. Just as in a similar fashion quantum fluctations around the event horizon of a black hole act to make it radiate particles and eventually evaporate.
If you are a time traveller from 2036, how do you plan to retake your place there. Your presence in this time frame would, as you have pointed out, cause a "temporal divergence" from the natural sequence of events. If you believe in the multiverse theory, may I ask you if you have memories of an unknown uncle being around while you were young?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 13:17
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To Trott:
I fear our conversation is in danger of turning due to an effect that is quite common on these boards. I realize what I’m saying is quite hard to swallow and it causes debate, weather serious or entertaining. It is even more difficult when you come into the middle of a conversation or a series of questions that are a few weeks old.
Your points are all quite valid and I have discussed them at length on this and other boards for quite a while. I do not wish to antagonize you however, we both know the Tippler cylinder is only a thought experiment to explain the very real physics behind Kerr black holes. As to your other comments, again, they are all true as defined by the limits of spacelike trips on single worldlines. It does not account for travel between worldlines.
I have never claimed to be a physicist or an expert on what the CERN laboratory is doing at any given moment so I feel it is pointless to argue about what they may be doing in the future or what "breakthroughs" they will or might have. My comments about the CERN lab are in reference to particle accelerators in general and other questions that have come up in the past. The major physics break through for controlled gravity distortion does happen at CERN in your future. Heck, we haven't even touched on "Z" field compression yet.
I suppose I could say that I was the one that traveled in time and convinced them to change their experiments but even I would have a hard time believing that one and I do not wish to insult your intelligence.
Just curious...what is it that interests you about time travel?
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Trott
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 14:10
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I am a graduate student in physics. I feel that the concept of time is in need of a lot more understanding. Because of that my interest in time travel is purely scientific. I am much more interested in the nature of time itself.
I must admit however that time travel would be the greatest technological breakthrough in all history. With such a machine all questions could be answered objectively.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:13
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Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 23:26
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I apologize for wasting this much space but I thought some of you would be interested in seeing this after reading some of things I've been saying in the last few months. Below is the address to the news site and a copy of the text.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=004071676359148&rtmo=r9XahmDX&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/00/12/31/wcia31.html
This is the world in 2015
By James Langton in New York
Global Trends 2015 - Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
CIA
International Insitute for Strategic Studies
THE world is on the brink of a new era that may resemble the script of a James Bond film in which international affairs are increasingly determined by large and powerful organisations rather than governments, according to a study just published by the CIA in Washington.
Click to enlarge
[Large graphic]
These could include alliances between some of the most powerful criminal groups such as the Mafia and Chinese triads. Such groups, according to the CIA, "will corrupt leaders of unstable, economically fragile or failing states, insinuate themselves into troubled banks and businesses, and co-operate with insurgent political movements to control substantial geographic areas".
The agency adds: "Their income will come from narcotics trafficking; aliens smuggling; trafficking in women and children; smuggling toxic materials, hazardous wastes, illicit arms, military technologies, and other contraband; financial fraud; and racketeering."
The 70-page report, Global Trends 2015, will be required reading for the new president, George W Bush, and his senior policy advisers. It suggests that the early years of the coming century are likely to be filled with both potential and peril.
Compiled with help from think tanks in America and the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, the report projects a future in which globalisation, whether in the shape of the European Union, the International Monetary Fund, giant corporations or terrorist gangs, plays an increasing part in the lives of ordinary people.
"Governments will have less and less control over flows of information, technology, diseases, migrants, arms, and financial transactions, whether licit or illicit," it concludes.
In addition to confronting the growing economic and military power of China and India and the continuing decline of Russia, the CIA says: "Between now and 2015 terrorist tactics will become increasingly sophisticated and designed to achieve mass casualties."
In particular it notes the growing threat of biological and chemical weapons and "suitcase" nuclear devices against the United States. In addition, it expects rogue states such as Iraq and Iran to develop long range missiles in the near future.
Iran, it says, could be testing such weapons by as early as the coming year, and cruise missiles by 2004. Iraq could have missiles capable of hitting America by 2015, with both nations developing nuclear, chemical and biological warheads.
Potential flashpoints have a familiar ring and include India and Pakistan, China's relations with Taiwan, and the Middle East, where the best that can be hoped for is a "cold peace".
Elsewhere, the world population will grow by more than one billion, to 7.2 billion, most of the increase coming in the mega-cities of the developing world. In Europe and Japan, an ageing population and static birthrate means that allowing more immigration may be the only way of meeting a chronic shortage of workers.
The gloomiest predictions are reserved for Africa, where Aids, famine, and continuing economic and political turmoil means that populations in many countries will actually fall. At least three billion people will live in regions where water is in increasingly short supply.
On the other hand, there is good news on energy supplies. "Energy resources will be sufficient to meet demand," the study says. The CIA report is most optimistic on the world economy, which it says has a potential for growth not seen since the 1960s. Computer technology represents "the most significant global transformation since the Industrial Revolution".
"At the same time, genetically modified crops will offer the potential to improve nutrition among the world's one billion malnourished people. China's economy will grow to overtake Europe as the world's second largest but still behind the United States. Russia's economy will contract to barely a fifth of America's.
The study expects the European Union to narrow the economic gap with America. It points out, however, that "lingering labour market rigidity and state regulation" mean that "Europe will not achieve fully the dreams of parity with the US as a shaper of the global economic system".
The 2015 report is an update of a 1997 CIA study into the world in 2010, which it admits failed to anticipate the global economic crisis that occurred between 1997 and 1998 which had the hardest impact in the Far East and Russia.
The new survey suggests a number of alternative scenarios, none of which makes happy reading. These include a trade war between Europe and America, and an alliance between terrorist organisations to attack the West. Most alarming of all, it raises the possibility of economic stagnation, followed by America abdicating its role as the world's policeman.
At the same time tensions begin to grow in the Far East, where China orders Japan to dismantle its nuclear programme, leaving, the report says, no alternative but for "US re-engagement in Asia under adverse circumstances at the brink of a major war".
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Fast
Member posted 30 December 2000 23:59
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check this out..
words to the wise from a proclaimed time traveler from the year 2036
url: http://www.p3n.org/pn120100.shtml
things concerning TT_0 pop up everywhere..
who knows whos listening...
Fast Out
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djayr42
Member posted 31 December 2000 12:26
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So it seems to me that this is one possible, most likely scenario.
In about 4 years the voting system in this country will touch off a civil war. (Or at the very least the civil disobedience of many.) Because people will be divided about who should have power to do things, nothing will be done. When our foreign obligations become lax and we cannot hold up our end of an agreement, (in the far and mid east) they will see that as opportunity to move in on this country. They will feel that they have the right. This is going to take about 10 years for people to get angry enough to do something with more impact. During that 10-year period there will be groups (like organized crime) that will see the division of the people as an opportunity to get rich and/or get power. This will help the in those who seek to hurt this country. By the time we realize what is coming it is already too late, having been distracted by our own civil war and others with in who sought control. Basically we weren’t looking and got hit.
Doses this seem close? It has been the pattern for other countries in the past.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 31 December 2000 12:43
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I'm flattered and a bit overwhelmed. I can honestly say I've never quite had this experience before. I appreciate the news posting. Thank you Time 02112
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 31 December 2000 11:00
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Well...you're getting closer people. Here's another one I found today. Again, I apologize for taking up this much space but I thought you'de want to see this.
http://www.observer.co.uk/life/story/0,6903,416412,00.html
Science 2001
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A machine called Z
Under a ring of water in a sealed chamber in the middle of the New Mexico desert lies the heart of a machine that could change the world
Michael Paterniti
Sunday December 31, 2000
It is never night inside the Machine. Even after the sun has set on the mesa and Jimmy Potter and the frogmen and the men in white jumpsuits and the men in blue jumpsuits have showered, packed up, and gone home; even as yawning, befuddled scientists - with names like Jim Bailey and Mark Derzon and Melissa Douglas - sit in offices in a nearby building, trapped by their own reflections and in the blackened windows; and even as this oesophageal dark falls over coyote and jackrabbit and moves everything towards sleep and dreams, towards the deepest centre of the night, the Machine is awake.
Its 36 Marx generators are set in a ring like a metallic Stonehenge. The 20 Rexolite disks of the vacuum chamber look like flying saucers. Its vast, concentric pool of five-weight oil and deionized water seems bottomless - real oil and real water, in half-million-gallon tanks that sit one inside the other like a wheel within a wheel. Even now, there are depths in the Machine, invisible worlds revealing themselves, the secret body of the universe floating up. Deuterium, tritium, helium.
It begins with the flip of a cyber switch in the control room at the north end of the hanger. Before a bank of computer screens, a man clicks a mouse, and then electricity, quietly sucked off the municipal power grid in Albuquerque, floods into the outer ring of Marx generators. Which is when the Machine takes control. A siren sounds, red lights flash, doors automatically lock. The frogmen and the white and blue jumpsuits clamber over the high bay, down metal steps, and retreat to a copper-coated room behind a foot of cement.
Another switch is flipped, another mouse clicked. To the piercing sound of an alarm, a countdown in the Marx generators ensues, or rather a count up, in kilovolts, comes in a monotone, almost hollow voice beneath the frantic alarm. The man in the control room on a tinny loudspeaker, the Machine speaking through the human.
'Twenty kV...'
'Thirty kV...'
'Forty kV...'
At 90, the floodgates open: a pulse of electricity surges out of the Marx generators toward an inside ring of giant capacitors and then through a series of gas switches. The current is compressed by the Machine into a wild whitewater of electricity that charges toward the vacuum chamber at a speed of 60 million feet per second. On its way, it passes through painted sharks' mouths, drawn there by the men in white and blue jumpsuits in the way that fighter pilots sometimes draw on their warplanes to show their prowess - or hide their misgivings. The electricity pours past the sharks' mouths, is redirected downward, along the Z axis, into the vacuum chamber, blitzing and bombarding from all sides a three-dimensional target in a gold-plated can, a delicately strung array of tungsten wires the size of a spool of thread, hanging in black space like a tiny chandelier.
Driven so furiously in the Machine, and then storming the array, the pulse of electricity - enough juice now to light up America like a birthday cake - instantly vapourises the tungsten wire into plasma, a superheated ion gas. The ions hover and dance along the invisible circumference once described by the array, while a relentless magnetic field keeps pressing on them, shoving them from behind. Thrusting and squeezing and ramming until the ions can no longer resist, the centre cannot hold, and in that hot nanosecond - Boom ! Everything becomes one.
This is not a gentle conjunction but a Pandora's box suddenly ripped open by nuclear passion, an orgy of ions. Boom ! Lightning fills the Machine, veins out over the surface of the water. Temperatures flare to those inside the sun. The earth rocks once again. And in few billionths of a second, 290 terawatts - 80 times the power generated on earth at any given time - roar to life inside the Machine.
Watching it through a Plexiglas window, you might as well be watching the beginning of the universe. Or the end of it. Contained in that single flash of white light, when the Machine holds the heat and the power of the sun, when the room fills with lightning, there is everything we know - and everything we may become. The 21st century. A world covered by rooms of little suns, generating intense energy and, with it, the possibilities of time travel and galaxy hopping. Peace among nations. Or the end of time as we know it, a hole ripped in the universe by the Machine, something many doomsayers predict, and the earth sucked into oblivion. Our downfall or salvation. A fusion machine they call Z.
The magic bean; the Holy Grail: fusion. The idea is to take two isotopes of the hydrogen atom - deuterium and tritium - and mash them together with a little energy, which in turn releases enormous amounts of energy in the form of a single neutron. Contrarily, fission, the method widely employed by today's nuclear reactors, splits heavy uranium and plutonium atoms, creating lots of energy but also tons of dangerous and everlasting radioactive waste. Fusion offers a clean source, borne out of the material of roughly a handful of water and a handful of earth, with its only by-product being an easily disposable helium-4 nucleus.
What would fusion mean? Endless, cheap energy. Amazing Star Trek , space-travel possibilities. Fame, fortune, and undoubtedly a Nobel or two for the lucky scientists. For the better part of five decades, the race has two separate approaches: magnetic confinement and inertial confinement. Most researchers - those from Japan, Russia, Europe and America - focus on the former: big accelerators called stellarators, spheromaks, and tokamaks (a machine designed partly by Andrei Sakharov) use huge magnets to contain and compress hydrogen isotopes that hover in a kind of reddish-blue plasma inside the huge torus-shaped tubes until implosion.
On the other hand, the idea behind inertial confinement is that tiny fuel pellets of deuterium and tritium are bombarded by lasers or X-rays. In the case of the Z Machine, the explosion that occurs when ions are released by the vapourised wire array, and then when ions are pinched together, creates a huge X-ray pulse, one that scientists hope can be used to heat the tiny pellets and, in turn, create a small thermonuclear explosion. As it is, fusion has never been achieved for an extended time outside the explosion of a hydrogen bomb.
The first time scientists attempted to shoot an early incarnation of the Z machine, in June 1980, there was bravado and false bravado and downright fear. At Sandia National Laboratories on Kirtland Air Force Base, in the same New Mexican high-desert landscape of America's greatest, most frightening nuclear discoveries, they'd been working on the Machine for four years. Yet there were still unknown variables, a scientist's nightmare. First, it was so much bigger and more powerful than any of its predecessors. What if the Marx generators blew up before it could be shot? What if residual X-ray radiation contaminated people in the area? Or a fire destroyed the complex? And what if everything worked perfectly and they got a huge energy release that blew up Albuquerque itself? It was a scenario that had been considered at the highest level. As had something worse: what if people later wished that it had been only Albuquerque that blew up?
The shot - Sandia shorthand for the firing of the Machine - was scheduled for a Friday night. But then the machine blew a fitting. The technical crew - the frogmen, as well as the men in white and blue jumpsuits - worked feverishly, and by Saturday noon the Machine was ready again. 'No one knew what to expect,' remembers Gerry Yonas, 58, an engineer and physicist and one of the founding fathers of the Z Machine. They took all necessary precautions, charged the Marx generators, and crossed their fingers. A switch was flipped, electricity pulsated into the Machine, ripped through the switches, stormed on to the wires. There was a wicked jolt, and... silence. Sweet, beautiful silence. Everyone was still on earth; everything seemed to work. The feeling was surreal. 'I felt the ground shake,' says Yonas, grinning at the memory, 'and everybody said: "Let's do it again!" Nobody wanted to go home. I had to kick them out. There was nowhere else in the world to be. This was the beginning.'
The scientists, at that time a group of 20 or so men, threw high fives and drank beer. Pure, silly jubilation. Only later, photographs of what actually had occurred inside the Machine made them gasp: huge dragon snorts of fire filled the hangar. Apparently, plumes of oil had sprayed skyward in the instant of explosion, flamed, and then flamed out before the men returned inside the Machine. They had nearly blown themselves up. By the grace of some benevolent god, or the Machine itself, they were allowed to return to work on Monday morning, giddy limbs intact.
Over the next 15 years, the Z Machine gradually improved its output, packing an astonishing wallop - 20 trillion watts' worth of electrical output, as compared with the mea gre 100,000 amps of the first machine - but it wasn't enough. Scientists and theoreticians estimated that for high-yield fusion to be achieved inside the Machine, it would need to generate something over 1,000 trillion watts. A factor of at least 50 of Z's output.
Which is when the men in suits and ties tried to kill the Machine. It was a dinosaur, they argued, no longer useful. They felt Z-pinch technology could not yield the mother lode. By 1995, even Yonas, who was about to become a grandfather, was acutely feeling the passage of time. He sadly had to admit that maybe he should sacrifice Z and all the optimism that had driven the project. Perhaps achieving high-yield fusion, something scientists compare to the invention of the lightbulb for its potential to change the world, did indeed belong to the other fusion machines, the stellarators and spheromaks and tokamaks. To the Russians or the Japanese or the British or the confederate nerds at Princeton or Lawrence Livermore or Oak Ridge. And maybe Sandia National Laboratories - over time, a place known more for its secretive mystique, its downright weird nefariousness, dating to the cloak-and-dagger days of Little Boy and Fat Man - would have to sit on the sidelines while someone else gave the world perhaps its greatest legacy.
But a funny thing happened on the way to the chop shop. Maybe it was 11th-hour desperation, or some invisible bolt of providence visited on a few overworked scientists, a couple of whom lit on the simple idea of stringing the wire array, the spool-sized target at the centre of the Machine, with double, then triple, the tungsten wire. All of a sudden - Boom ! Forty trillion watts! No one believed it. They reconfigured the Machine, boosting its X-ray production. Then someone, Melissa Douglas, thought to stack the arrays. Boom ! Two hundred trillion watts in a single pulse! Short of a nuclear blast, it was the most energy ever released on earth, and suddenly, in 1998, after five decades of chasing the illusion of high-yield fusion, of regarding it as some far-off Atlantis or dark galaxy's edge, the Z Machine was a third of the way there.
In science, if you do something once that's never been done before, it's considered a mistake. Do it twice, and it's simply a mirage. But the third time it becomes the truth. With Z's new, seemingly impossible results came the first flickering sign that some deep, unknowable power resided in the Machine. And so today, the Z Machine is considered one of the world's best hopes for achieving fusion. 'We may not understand how we get these huge pulses of power, the meaning may still elude us,' says Yonas. 'But it's still a fact.'
One that Yonas himself, at first, had a hard time grasping. After he was handed the results, he remembers squinting at them, and sitting back at his desk as if blown by a solar wind. 'My God,' he said in a small voice. 'This could work. This could really work.'
Listen to the Z scientists, to their best idea ('The use of stark-shifted emissions to measure electric-field fluctuations and acceleration gaps'), and their dream ('To remedy plasmic instability and create higher temp- eratures'), and you enter a kind of friend country that becomes an Andean prison from which it gets harder and harder to escape. The scientists admit that, at moments, their whole selves are inseparable from the Machine, that the pull of the Machine is so great that re-entering normal life can be nearly impossible.
Jim Bailey, a handsome, soft-spoken, loafer-wearing plasma physicist whose conversation is peppered with references to spectroscopy and 'the visible regime', says sometimes it's even hard to go to a neighbour's barbecue - can't make small talk, can't communicate what you do - let alone talk to your wife. Mark Derzon, a boyish, bearded nuclear physicist, says he works a system with his wife: when he walks through the door at the end of a day, he says green light ('Yes, everything is fine, I'm ready for the kids'); yellow light ('Give me 15 to decompress'); or red light ('I need time'). Melissa Douglas says that there's no line drawn at all between the Machine and her private life - that the Machine, her place inside of the Machine, studying something called Rayleigh-Taylor instabilities, is her private life. And now, at the age of 36, she's watched her friends get married, have families, settle, and on occasion she's wondered to herself: 'what am I doing? Can we really make fusion work?'
Since the 1950s, the US government has invested nearly $15bn to find out, always with the promise that fusion is just around the corner - two, three, five years away - and, with it, a fusion revolution that would hurtle us to the centre of the earth, the deepest trenches of the ocean, and the farthest reaches of space. A revolution that would morph the Third World into the First World until we are simply One World.
After all, how many wars have been fought over oil? And then, with oil reserves expected to reach full depletion by 2050, how many more will be? Remove oil as a vital component of our speed-driven, chip-fitted age and, sure, people would find things to brawl over, but energy wouldn't be one of them.
And with limitless, cheap energy, the development of poorer nations wouldn't be one of them, either.
And with development, the have-nots and pariahs of the world would theoretically join the haves, and so food and housing and education wouldn't be one of them.
And with a higher standard of living would come a new freedom for humanity. For at its heart, fusion, as a Utopian ideal, has always symbolised freedom; freedom from the mistakes and waste of our past, the Hanford Reservations and the Savannah River Sites - those vast, spooky, radiating underground storage facilities chambered with containers of plutonium and iodine waste, on top of which America is built. Though left unsaid, the race for fusion has always been about democracy or a democratic alternative.
And yet one of the biggest threats to fusion comes from the same group of people responsible for the Hanford Reservations and the Savannah River Sites: the US Government. Recently, Congress and various federal agencies have become disenchanted by the fusion dream. Critics have lambasted it as a waste of time and money. If we haven't achieved it in the last 45 years, they argue, we never will. The US has dropped out of a proposed $10bn international fusion project called ITER, leaving the facility in doubt of completion. Meanwhile, the government has spent $3bn, with as much as an additional $43bn to come, on developing Nevada's Yucca Mountain as a vast nuclear-waste site - despite well-documented problems - and continues its commitment to fission reactors despite the fact that radioactive waste can be lethal up to 600 millennia after burial. Leaders in fusion field, like the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, have mothballed their big machines, laid off staff, and now are fighting simply for their own survival.
'You have to find a way to justify doing something that you may never see accomplished in your lifetime,' says Jim Bailey, who has a penchant for reading Hume. 'I mean, instead I could be working for a cancer cure, with at least a greater hope of finding one. But I'm OK with this. I've made my peace with it. Fusion will be the greatest scientific achievement of our time.'
Yonas, with the Super Bowl confidence of Joe Namath, predicts that usable high-yield fusion will be made available to the American public by an accelerator called X-1, a generation or two beyond Z, within three decades - maybe sooner. Mark Derzon, a member of what's called the Advanced Concepts Group at Z, has designed what would be the first practical Z-pinch reactor - 'A zero-miracle power plant,' he cheerfully proclaims, and believes that the Z technology is rougher and tougher, able to sustain more of the constant rock and roll of such a plant, than are the sensitive lasers and vacuums necessary for magnetic confinement. But optimism usually carries the day only past lunch; the request to draw up preliminary plans for X-1, with its price tag of up to $1bn dollars, is likely to be approved by the Department of Energy.
'Every day, it's a leap of faith,' says Neal Singer, a science writer at Sandia. 'Adding wires to the array - where did that idea come from? From the outside it makes no sense. It's incredibly complex and difficult to string tungsten wires 1/10th the diameter of a piece of hair and space them perfectly. And they did it and got tremendous results. Then they added more and more, spaced them a little differently and now we're a third of the way there. It takes these little steps, this day-by-day thinking. Hour after hour. Ten, 12, 14 hours a day. The constant question is, Can you just make a little change to influence the result?'
Thus the world inside the Machine is driven down to its smallest, most maddening detail. For in the end, fusion - its possibility and reality, its attainment and capture - comes out of this finely tuned call-and-response with the universe itself, the channelling of some great unknown, copulating force that calls for the perfect alignment of human and Machine. That is, the human culture surrounding the Machine attempts to mimic the Machine itself , which is trying to mimic the universe. The mannerisms of the Machine become the mannerisms of its minions - people rage and tyrannise, overheat, relent, synergise, procreate, vanish, and recur. One idea seems brilliant and fails, while another may start as a quail but then, compressed by other ideas - electrons stripping off, ions colliding - transforms into something sharp and fast, something agitatingly, beautifully right. And then, of course, it is shot into the Machine to see if it is.
Still there is Melissa Douglas's nagging doubt, which is the nagging doubt of everyone here. On certain days, it is possible to believe that you are merely trapped in the rubble of some cosmic joke with no punch line, that Godot is eating chilli dogs somewhere and won't be able to make it. After all, Jim Bailey's lab books are full of 13 years' worth of jottings; Mark Derzon has pulled countless all-nighters in the name of what may or may not be the reactor of the future; Melissa Douglas has spent entire months of her life obsessing over a single equation, the pallor of her face reflecting only pale computer light - all of this thought and activity and faith belying the possibility that their efforts might be for nothing. And yet as much as the race for fusion is a race against the Russians at Triniti labs, or the Germans at FZK labs, or other American scientists at Lawrence Livermore, it's also literally a race against the ticking internal clocks of each scientist who entertains the question: will I live to see it?
'History forgets the individual,' says Mark Derzon pensively, surrounded by no fewer than 30 photographs of his young daughters. 'One day Plato will be forgotten. Ultimately, the name you make for yourself is not the important thing. It's what you did, what you stood up for, what you acted on. Did you try to make the world a better place? In order to do it, the world needs fusion. I just happen to think that Z is the best way to get there. And we're going to have one serious pizza party around here if it is.'
Jimmy Potter stands inside the Machine, glaring down into the half-million-gallon pool of water at the submerged refrigerator-sized capacitors where, he suspects, there may be a broken, bubbling gas switch. Potter, a Texan, is the keeper of the Beast, the man who oversees the whole shebang for today's shot. 'Are those bubbles down there?' he asks out loud, vexed. 'We already sent the divers in. I sure hope not.'
If Potter is driven by perfection, then he is merely a reflection of the culture at Sandia National Laboratories. And if the quest for fusion is intensely competitive, Moonily quixotic, and at times downright nasty, then Sandia mirrors, among its myriad projects, many of those same contradictory characteristics. Top secret or otherwise, spread over the dusty 27-square-mile patch of Kirtland Airforce Base, the projects include the training of honeybees to detect land mines, the invention of a foam that kills anthrax, the making of a synthetic sludge, and the perfecting of various micromachines, some so small as to be undetectable by the human eye, which might be used to lock down nuclear weapons. Sandia is the home to Teraflops, the fastest computer in the world, as well as the birthplace of moly-99, a radioactive substance widely used in medical procedures. On the east of the base, behind three rows of concertina wire, is a cluster of foothills rumoured to be now-empty nuclear silos. They seem to stand as a reminder of how closely the isotopes of Thanatos and Eros can be held in the same idea, for it to be a real idea, a saving idea, both have to be there, threatening to undo us and remake us at once. To obliterate and immortalise.
Potter couldn't care about all that. 'My job is to work with the personalities here,' he says, now pacing the high bay, twitching with pent-up energy. He slips behind a pig (a radiation shield), and checks a silver box that houses a cryogenic pump. He monitors the tech crew, confers with the lead scientist on the shot, keeps everything running on time. 'You've got your top of the Ivy League class,' he continues. 'You've got prima donnas with huge egos. And you've got technicians who at least graduated high school. Nobody can operate without the other. The first thing that happens with two strong personalities is clash. It's my job to go to one and bring him up and maybe bring the other one down and then bring them together.'
Of course, there are days when everything feels charged with Shakespearean plots and counterplots, days when tension fills up around the Machine. All of it is caused by the Machine, which rarely exists, of course, in its aluminum-and-Rexolite grandeur, oblivious. There is head-butting between the young comers kicking with ideas and the upper echelon of Z veterans, who ultimately hold the power here. There are Iagos trying to ice someone else's idea in order to promote their own. (The lab rewards the best with bonuses.)
'I've become a lot more aggressive,' says Melissa Douglas, one of only three women among the 60 full-time scientists who work on Z. 'You have to really stand your ground. It was very hard for me to do that at first.' In four years on the project, she remembers her worst day as the one when she delivered a seminar and a colleague heckled her mercilessly. Why? Was she that stupid? Did her PhD in plasma physics and her postdoc at Los Alamos make her that inept? So she took her weakness, her insecurity, her lack, and shot it into the Machine, and it came back as power, 290 terawatts' worth.
As have others. Marriage is shot in. Love is shot in. Innocence and experience and numbers are shot in, and come back as something almost holy.
While many of these scientists consider themselves agnostic, they are quick to admit that they still find themselves in thrall to the unknown, to the force that pulses through the Machine. 'In a deep sense, I would say that my greatest satisfaction here comes from the act of creation,' says Jim Bailey. 'Because what we're trying to do is create knowledge that didn't exist before. Whether that brings us closer to God or not, I don't know. It brings us closer to an understanding of the universe, and if you want to think of God in those terms, then I suppose you could define it that way.'
Melissa Douglas describes the charge of joy she gets from a perfect photograph of a Rayleigh-Taylor instability taken inside the vacuum chamber by a pinhole camera at the moment of the wire array's implosion. 'A beautiful picture!' she says, holding up a snapshot that looks more like a Rorschach test - kind of blobby with spikes and valleys. 'It sounds ridiculous, but when I first saw it I jumped and hopped around the room. Ecstatic. Just amazing. Being around this machine, you can't help but feel awe. The universe is mathematical and, you know, God is a mathematician.'
And Jimmy Potter - Jimmy Potter is clearing the high bay as sirens sound for all personnel to vacate the Machine and retreat to the control room. Today's shot will attempt to find a way to bombard the wire array uniformly with electricity, so that each last kilovolt of energy can be accelerated into the Machine and come back as more. 'I mean, how do you explain all this to someone outside of this place?' he says, gesturing toward the Machine. 'We don't make a product that can be sold. You can't really see what's going on on in that vacuum chamber. I usually just tell people I work with X-rays. That we've got a big machine doing big things, and one day we're gonna change your life.'
Dawn inside the Machine, and it's silent. The frogmen and the men in white and blue jumpsuits are arriving, shaking off their sleep, downing coffee. Jimmy Potter got the shot last night, downloaded the diagnostics, sent everyone home saying they'd take apart the Machine today, and then drove the half hour to his house, over the mesa and the beautiful landscape, to his wife and kids, trying to forget this place for a few hours. At 5.30am, he was back, rallying the crew, which now has sluggishly begun its work, drilling and hammering at the vacuum chamber.
The people of Z admit there's a new inten sity, especially given the Machine's recent exponential gains. There's something to prove - and they need to prove it fast. Plans to win funds to build a cheaper, intermediary machine named ZX, one that will lead to X-1, are the stuff of new worry and hope. And, like life on the edge of any new frontier, there is still the possibility of danger.
But there are dreamy days here as well. There are times when some Z scientists find it hard not to let there minds wander, to entertain versions of fusion-propelled rockets arcing the local solar systems, of fuel stations on the moon or Io or Pluto, wherever you can pick up a little lithium and water. And there are others who imagine it as the Peace and Love Machine, who've put their trust and idealism for the best possible world in Z. And to get Peace and Love from the Machine, they have to shoot in their souls, holding nothing back.
Now the crane groans over its huge tracks above the Machine, preparing to lift off the 8,000lb crown of the vacuum chamber. Last evening, the Machine inhaled the sun, this room filled with lightning, and then everything exploded. Now, when the crown is unbolted, hitched to a hook, and lifted away by the crane, a group of men tentatively peer down into the Machine, goggle-eyed, perhaps expecting to find some traces of gold dust or, more absurdly, a pile of confetti - or, by some miracle of the universe, maybe a fully formed angel, sleeping with its white wings pleached and sooty, its legs twisted under its body, both comical and impossible.
So the men look and look, down into the centre of Z, the womb of the Machine, for some message there sent back from the invisible world. But it is just a well of black space - plasma and atoms unable to hold the weight of their gaze, the chill of their wonder.
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NoTime
unregistered posted 31 December 2000 11:34
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A "Z" machine with a Marx generator -- is this something invented by Zeppo Marx?
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 31 December 2000 13:07
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Dear Mr Deviper,
Interesting indeed I will look up the points you stated for they are quite compelling. I do admit that the information I recieved came second hand so I trully cannot vouch for the accuracy of the statements in the story and I appologize to the people on the forum for the confusion. My father once told me that there are two topics that can never be agreed upon...religion and politics. However I do hold to my beliefs but without having performed carbon dating or other methods myself I cannot testify for or against their legitimacy. Is there any documented proof of a positive recorded in any lab? If do you have access to this proof that you may back your claims that creation is completely proven wrong as you so subtely implored in the last two paragraphs? Can you explain to me how it is more logical for such an intelligent existance to acurr merely by trillions of chance happenings whose probabillity of actually acurring is practically imeasurable then for an infinitely intelligent creator to have planned the creation. Do the numbers it is far more logical and probable for the universe to have been created then just to have acurred. By the way infinity has to exist. For infinity not to exist is a violation of thermal dynamics in that something cannot come from nothing. So if every chance happening accurs from a "big bang" before which nothing existed then something came from nothing. No this is not disputed by religion but by scientific law. Tell me how to get around this one. Let us first try to analyse order and chaos. In an infinite period of time does a universe with a mixture of order and chaos degrade to pure chaos resulting in a constant state of infinite entropy. Or does the universe gravitate to a universe of infinite order? Hot or Cold is the big question. If, on the one hand we have an infinite number of quantized randoms confined to a volume what is the shape of that volume? In this case the shape of the volume will be a perfect sphere on acount an infinite number of two or three constantly varying shapes would be at such compression as to form a constant uniform surface or volume. Thus an infinite number of randoms equills perfect order...yet even in such a universe we are measuring the randoms which must therefore exist. The measurement we made and the deduction is in no way connected to the origins of the quantities existant therein by a subtransfinite period. I say subtransfinite instead of infinite because I believe the universe is both finite and infinite and that time and space are quatiized and any movement in them. Thusly I believe that the distance in a finite space-time to infinity in this bounded space-time is finite. Thus any numeral beyond the barrier of the universe is not infinite but a finite number to big to fit in this universe so it exists in the area beyond the present universe...the past or future. If measure infinity in the small beyond any given center mass lies superluminosity and therefore past. The velocity of light is the folcrum point that exists in and marks the boundary between the infinite past and infinite future.I imagine that at this velocity one could part this reality and find another in the past or come in contact with the future. Tell me what would happen to matter if one were to burst infinitely into the future and back in a splitt second? I appologize I got side tracked this is supposed to be an inquisition to evaluate whether or not science supports or crumbles Creation. I appologize I have tried to see how a universe of nonexistance could come into to existance in the form of an infinite number of randoms and I can see no logic in this only a border created to establish the area of impossibility within for the existance of a universe to derive from nothing. But the relation that I see between the domain of non-existance and existance is unstated. I would have said non-linear but even these mathematical interactions acurr within the finite universe. It would appear that only super finite actions could exist within this region of nonexistance thus defining this region an infinite(beyond finite). I see no place for nothing in existance. There is no displacement within an infinite mass and I can therefore not see the possiblility of manufacturing a place of non existance save by an infinite being who alone could traverse this clause to make a domain existant seperated on all sides from the rest of existance by a border of absolute absolute infinite limit.
All of this is purely my own ascertaining so it more then likely contains some flaws. I also want to state that I ment no insult by the way I stated my view up on top but this is merely how I learned to debate. I assumed creation side of the arguement and stated what I could ascertain in the hopes that others will debate my claims so that I and others may gain knowlege.
Teach me,
let us discover the truth.
Edwin G. Schasteen
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Trott
Member posted 31 December 2000 23:51
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Who receives the Nobel Prize for inventing time travel? Surely, since there is a divergence from your time line such information would be of no consequence to divulge.
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pamela
Member posted 01 January 2001 02:01
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Another time traveler????
check out: http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/cs/timetravel/index_3.htm
scroll down till you get to: "the Wave Rider"
I would have copied and pasted it but it is a handwritten copy of faxes.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:19
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(This group of postings not numbered. Not sure where it went.)
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 11:47
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Greetings and happy holidays everyone. I am very surprised and delighted to see the conversation going in the direction it has on this thread. Unknowingly, you all have stepped into the real mystery of time travel that remains speculative in 2036. Based on a couple of questions I see here, I will try my hardest to describe what we in 2036 think space-time looks like and how it behaves. Please keep in mind that I realize how easy it is to dismiss what I say. First, I’m trying to do this from memory. Imagine you are back in 1911 trying to explain a jet engine to the Wright brothers. However, there are some very basic properties of quantum theory that support this model today. I appreciate the fact that you are reading this with an open mind.
(If parallel universes do exist, did they all start simultaneously? I mean, let's assume that the universe originated from a singularity. Were there any parallel universes at that point? That would not be very logical and it would also imply that there is a parallel universe in which our universe never existed.)
It is thought that the event called the “Big Bang” was the start of not only this worldline or universe but all worldlines and all universes that make up the superuniverse. It is also thought that the superuniverse can be imagined as an expanding sphere with the big bang in the center.
Individual worldliness (or timelines as you call them) can be imagined as lines originating at the center and “trending” toward spiraling around the sphere until they reach the edge. The individual worldlines expand in length and widen as you follow them from the center. Each individual “moment” or “event” on a world line has infinite possibilities or outcomes. Imagine this as a single point with infinite lines shooting away from it, which in turn are made up of points with their own possibilities and outcomes. Now, remember, these individual worldliness with all these points and possibilities are defined by their ability to hold there inhabitants to timelike trips only (no faster than light travel).
Now consider the reality of a spinning or electrified black hole (Kerr). Penrose diagrams of these oddities show mathematically that you can make simulated spacelike trips (faster than light) through the singularity without being destroyed. In order to do this without wiping out most modern physical laws, you must travel to an alternate worldline or universe. Therefore, if multiple worldlines exist, infinite worldlines exist.
In trying to imagine a superuniverse with infinite possibilities and worldlines, I think of a room with mirrors on all the walls. You are aware of your captivity but as you look in the distance, you see an infinite number of “yours” in an infinite number of mirrored rooms. The gravity distortion machine allows you to “step” out of your room and into another next to you. The closer you are to your original room, the closer it looks like yours, the farther away, the stranger it looks to you.
(…If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.")
A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.
On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975.
I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).
From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I’m there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).
I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.
When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).
If all this isn’t enough to get your head spinning…here are some issues we’re dealing with in 2036.
1. Did your worldline (D) exist at all before I got here from (C)? (personally I don’t see how it couldn’t)
2. What happens at the end of a worldine at the edge of the superuniverse?
3. If there are infinite worldlines and infinite possibilities and an edge to the superuniverse, doesn’t that mean occurring events on worldliness are staggered as they reach the edge? (time could end at any moment without warning).
Happy new year everyone!
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 30 December 2000 13:37
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To: Roel van Houten
Thank you for trying to answer those questions but I really do not expect that anyone can. I thought I would share with you things we wonder about. Your logic about me is quite correct but again I must state that I am not trying to get you or anyone else to believe or buy anything.
As far as evidence goes…I have however decided to try an experiment with you that may be more convincing. It involves the travel of information at faster than light. In fact, I have dropped at least three little gems like this that no one else has picked up on.
You said you are confused by the 5100 story. I will explain further. In 2036, it was discovered (or at least known after testing) that the 5100 computer was capable of reading and changing all of the legacy code written by IBM before the release of that system and still be able to create new code in APL and basic. That is the reason we need it in 2036. However, that information was never published by IBM because it would have probably destroyed a large part of their business infrastructure in the early 70s. In fact, I would bet the engineers were probably told to keep their mouth’s shut.
Therefore, if I were not here now telling you this, that information would not be discovered for another 36 years. Yet, I would bet there is someone out there who can do the research and discover I am telling the truth. There must be an old IBM engineer out there someplace that worked on the 5100. They just might not have ever asked if I hadn’t pointed it out.
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 06 January 2001 13:10
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((I realize that you said you are not a physicist, but I was curious if you are from the future: What is the current status of string theory?))
Who doesn’t love string theory? Please forgive the next few comments, I’m trying to be cryptic and jump starting my memory at the same time. In 2036, string theory still dominates physics due to its continued “effect” of encompassing other physical properties from unrelated fields. A great deal of the theoretical mathematics behind time travel was discovered by testing various ideas in string theory and eliminating the anomalies. As I recall, it was this original work that led to the final proof that six dimensions do indeed curl up to give us our observable universe. This in turn supported more of the theoretical math behind time travel…etc. It’s ironic that the beauty of string theory gives future engineers the confidence to create the distortion unit even though the final proof is still unknown. You’re a physics student, have you ever heard the Princeton String Quartet play?
Trott
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 20:40
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Mr. TT_0,
I am familiar with the Princeton String Quartet. They are physicist who are working on string theory at the Advanced Institute of Physics at Princeton University in New Jersey.
You mentioned a divergence from time lines. How is it possible to measure such a divergence? I would assume that it would be impossible to calculate how causes of one single event would propagte into the future. Does not chaos theory make such determinations impossible? Even if I gave you the exact position and velocity of all objects in the universe (which is impossible(I can not even give you the exact position and velocity of a single object due to the Heisenberg Uncertainity Principle)) you could not tell me what the future holds. Of course this results from the fact that the objects do not represent individual closed systems but in fact can interact.
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Trott
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 20:53
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P.S.
You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current theory suggests that there should be at least 7 curled up dimensions. It was discovered by Ed Witten that if you added an additional dimension that the 5 slightly different versions of string theory would combine into a single theory, which is often called M-theory.
I think it would be interesting if one of these extra dimensions was timelike. There are very few people investigating this possibility.
IP: Lo
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 January 2001 13:36
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RGRUNT:
Thank you for considering the problem of returning home. You seem to have stumbled on an intuitive proof of some of the physics of time travel. You are correct, getting back to the worldline of origin is easier than picking an exact destination on a different worldline.
I wrote down the graphic you outlined. If y1 starts perpendicular to x1 and x2 and is rotated, where is the center of rotation? I imagined it between x1 and x2. If this is so, wouldn’t y1 end up parallel between x1 and x2 with each one being 6 inches away from y1 on either side?
SHADOW:
((The artificial singularity you travel with, you say it forms a local gravity field. Does it physically reduce the size of nearby objects during operation? And if so by how much? ))
Actually, there are 2 singularities in the unit. The gravity field is manipulated by three factors that affect it in distinct ways. Adding electric charge to the singularities increases the diameter of the inner event horizons. Adding mass to the singularities increases the area of gravitational influence around the singularities. Rotating and positioning the polar axis of the singularities affects and alters the gravity sinusoid.
The effects of the gravity produced by the unit do not have enough time to significantly alter physical objects within a reasonable distance from the outside of the sinusoid. No, things do not get smaller.
((If the electron injection system alters the shape of the field, would that not force the unit to accelerate through space as well as time?))
There is no relative movement in space due to three main factors. Large, kinetic energy inducing effects of the gravity field are compensated for by the interaction of the singularities. The mass of the unit and any objects inside the sinusoid do not exhibit any huge increases on the departure worldline during travel. The observed path of the traveler is obtained by changing the gravity, not by moving the vehicle. The black hole comes to you.
((The question is define "time"))
To me, time has two definitions.
I see time as a mathematical component of a 10 dimensional super universe. It is a variable I use to define my location and existence.
I also see time as a metaphysical compromise our senses use to define the area of collective existence God has placed us in.
When I can measure and sense time, I know I am not with God.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:21
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pamela
Member posted 01 January 2001 10:29
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piecing together the information in the faxes provided by the "waverider" it sounds to me that if this be true then it is some form of advanced remote viewing.consider the following on how he describes how he time travels:
"I am a time traveler. Although we refer to it as riding the wave. I am a US citizen born in 1964. I am nearly 40 years old. In 1983 I enlisted in the united states Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional beings, they are human.
I have learned over the years that not everyone can safely travel the wave, and I was first approached, I was told, due to an unusually large amount of some chemical that naturally occurs in the human body, it somehow aids in the time travel process,(MY FRIENDS told me what chemical it was back then,but that was many years ago. and I have long forgotten the name of the stuff. I think it has some copper or something in it.) I have since learned that when i enlisted in the US ARmy MY FRIENDS gained a large amount of information about me. My genetic history and so forth, and it was this information that changed my life forever."
"I should first explain how I travel in time. The short and sweet of it is that I was taught to target a particular person, place or event. The more information I have on the target the better my chance of success and the faster I reach my target. I take a photo of the target. a sheet of paper with the information on it, a map of the site etc. I circle the target and begin the process. I then enter a quiet darkened area (we use to call it the pad) a period of concentration and meditation begins. For days, weeks, sometimes even months after beginning I will study the target, concentrate on the target,even begin to dress in the period clothing of the target during my time in the pad ( only about two hours per day is all I can manage.) as I begin the feel the wave approaching, i look for the doorway, the gateway. the rip in the fabric of time or whatever you want to call it.For me it almost always looks like a pool of water that I pass through before entering the new time line. Some time travelers had only out of body experiences (these people we call projectors) others of us (called wave riders) physically disappear from the current timeline. Early on in the project I would use a small electromagnetic tuner to help me concentrate and focus on the target, I no longer use any aid when waveriding."
Interesting....the US Army again...
Timetraveler_0 have you ever heard of the "Waveriders"?
-pamela
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 01 January 2001 15:34
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Well it's a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well.
J.C.
P.S. I'm home... =)
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Curious
unregistered posted 01 January 2001 17:31
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Pamela, what the Waverider is describing sounds a lot like the technique used by the Incunabula/Ong's hat group. They supposedly had developed inter-dimentional travel. check out tis site: http://www.incunabula.org/
A lot of the info on the site seems to be disinfo, but then there are pieces of the truth mixed in. Here is another site with another point of view: http://it.t.boltpages.com/it.t/
Dimentional displacement requires less power and technology then temporal displacement.
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Time02112
Member posted 01 January 2001 17:36
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TT_0,
I appreciate your comments here, and I thought I would provide you with an example of just how appreciated you are.
(You're sincerely welcome my Friend!...any"Time"
Below is a copy of a recent email from p3n:>
From: "Webmaster"
To:
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 17:34:13 -0800
Subject: Re: The "Z" Machine
Hi Gary,
I posted a link to the "Z" machine story yesterday, the second I saw it.
Thanks for sending the "Proclaimed" Time Traveler story. It was one of the
best things that has come into P3N and with the help of links from other
websites it has been one of the most visited pages. It was also very thought
provoking. Please feel free to submit more writings or links to good stories
when you find them.
Thanks again,
Rick Reed
Webmaster P3N
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Pamela, I am very familiar with this "Waverider" I listened to his info. on the former "Art Bell Show" known today, as the current "Coast To Coast AM" program.
since "Premier Radio Networks" purchased Art Bell's Legacy for a sumisable amount. http://coasttocoastam.com
you can listen to pre-recorded programs, up to 30 days, in the "Past Shows" selection, on their website. Anything beyond 30 days, you will need to purchase a tape.
I believe that this "Waverider" information & faxes, are still available in text & jpg formats on the coast to coast website.
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 01 January 2001).]
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Time02112
Member posted 01 January 2001 18:25
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TT_0
What could you surmise, as to what might happen, as a result if you provided us with copies of various news articles in relation to "Technology Reports" published a year in our future, or any "Time" after (Such as in your "Worldline" as you so describe?
*Could You?
*Would You?
And please explain your reasons for why you would, or would not do something like this for us?
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Fast
Member posted 01 January 2001 18:59
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i think that when Art Bell retired(unknown reason..) he said that the Wave Rider was not real,it was just some guy messing around.he told that to the sheriff in his town,or something similar..
i could be mistaken..
Fast Out
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 01 January 2001 20:38
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I see that I have returned just in time. The concept of Time Travel has overwhelmed some with the idea of accepting it, and going along with it. Have you all forgotten that Time Travel is a means of controlling who we are. For a future collective agenda.
My site is updated, check it out.
-INDIVIDUALS OPPOSED TO TEMPORAL MANIPULATION-
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/
J.C.
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pamela
Member posted 01 January 2001 23:24
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Curious,
thankyou for providing the links to Ong's hat they are very interesting.I will be looking at it more indepth.
Time 02112,
boy, the "z" machine story got around pretty quick!
Fast,
If Art Bell has admitted to the time traveler being fake why are the stories still posted on his site? Knowing Art Bells
character I think he would have written a follow up letter on it or pulled all the faxes from the site.
It still does not mean the faxes are legitimate however.
one thing I have been noticing though is some of the predictions were not acurate. A time traveler from another worldline can really only testify to what he has seen on his worldline. but now I am beginning to wonder....how many timetravelers are out there? how many are on this worldline at any given time? how many times can you alter events before something happens?
a lot of what waverider spoke on in his final faxes sounds a lot like timetraveler_0's testimony. I know TTO is going to be really interested in reading waveriders faxes. perhaps he may be able to relate to some of the language written.
sincerely,
pamela
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Trott
Member posted 02 January 2001 12:46
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Timetravel Activist,
If you believe in the multi-universe interpretation of quantum mechanics than everything with a non-zero possibility plays out. Therefore, I do not see how one could say that your future or history is being changed since one possibility, if time travel is possible, is for your future to be changed. Of course in an alternate universe, you would still be whatever it is that you thing has been changed about you.
If time travel ever becomes more than just theory, it would mark the greatest scientific moment in all history. Surely, you must agree with that.
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Trott
Member posted 02 January 2001 12:57
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Mr. O,
You said that there were 7 other time travellers that you knew of who were on various missions from 2036 on your timeline. I am curious have people in 2036 been visited by people from further in the future? One would think that once time travel was possible and widely known that visitors from other time frames would be more likely to be visible and willing to be upfront about their visitation to the period after time travel, A.T.T (after time travel).
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Fast
Member posted 02 January 2001 01:27
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pamela,
it is no longer HIS website...at least i think so.
the last time i checked in was when his page was redirected to CoasttoCoastAM.com.
i think i first got intrested into gibb's work after hearing him on the Art Bell show..
but i remember an interview or something where a friend of his or a sheriff said that the wave rider was a nice story,but it wasnt real.i think thats right.
Fast Out
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 02 January 2001 01:53
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Trott,
I see your brand new here, so I can understand if you don't know the history of what I've said in past posts. Let me just say that yes Time Travel will be this worlds greatest technological breakthrough, when it becomes real (to this timeline that is).
However, unlike you who wishes to see this issue of Time Travel as a scientist in an objective manner.
I choose to see this issue on a human/moral level. Is it ethical to Time Travel? Is it right to change the past with the knowledge one knows now in the future?
You've all seen "Back to the Future 2" where Marty is in the future, and he attempts to take back with him an almanac to place sports bets in the past.
Well, you can see where the moral implication can put us in, if our curiosity to go back and do things in this manner will do to our society? If one person does it, others will want to too.
If others are getting genetically engineered, others will want to too. To keep up at least, since now the rich who can afford it, are this super eugenic species (with intelligence and looks). Will we say then “Survival of the Fittest?”
Where does that leave out normal hard working honest people? Apparently that no longer exists.
Therefore, as you can see, my only beef with Time Travel is that it can be abused. Sure it can benefit us, but I am an Activist trying to get the word out that it's not just glamorous and wonderful as it may sound, and that we should all jump in the band-wagon with it.
Someone needs to look out for humanities best interest in preserving our way of life, and I'm willing to take on that responsibility. Who can say the same?
Sincerely,
J.C.
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Fast
Member posted 02 January 2001 04:14
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every page in every book has 2 sides..
2 sides which are to be viewed and judged..
time travel is just another page in just another book...
Fast Out
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Roel van Houten
Member posted 02 January 2001 16:32
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Hi everyone,
With all due respect, but the story about the "Waverider" sounds pretty ridiculous compared to the story that TimeTravel_0 provided us with.
I don't think timetravel will exist for a couple of decades to come, maybe even centuries. But I strongly believe that timetravel will not be possible without the aid of a machine of somekind.
Nowadays people are said to be using 30% of their brainpower and although people have accomplished many great things, I don't believe the remaining 70% is enough to travel through time. There are myths about monks and priests who were able to levitate by focussing their thoughts, but that's nothing compared to timetravel.
Anyone?
Roel van Houten
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pamela
Member posted 02 January 2001 17:33
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Hi Roel Van Houten,
Is it still raining over there?
You forgot the weather report at the end!
I think time travel already exists.
One thing you have to remember that it doesnt really matter WHEN it was ever created but IF. because with a time machine you can travel to ANY time.
TTO has made me realize alot of different possibilities in time travel.Things I never thought of before I am now thinking on.
New ideas have sprung up. new pieces of the puzzle possibly found.
about the priests and monks...I think that would involve more the will, spirit, and amplified thoughts than just the brain alone.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the "Z" machine?
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 02 January 2001).]
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 02 January 2001 19:52
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I'm sorry but I don't believe the Time Traveler is from the year 2036. Pamela u seem like a smart woman how can you believe that he is a time traveler where there is nothing that he says could prove that he is. You even beleived the guy who called the Art Bell show and it's pretty sure that HE is a fake. The only thing that makes me think that Time Travel is possible was a incident that happened to me in 1995. It was a Saturday and I was living in Manhattan. I had to get up early to move the car from the meter.Standing in the corner of my block looking like he was waiting for the bus was a man that looked exactly like me.It really scared me. I saw him and he saw me. I just took off running (which I regret). Was that me from the future?? Or was that someone that just looked like me? I don't know and I don't think I ever will know
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Fast
Member posted 02 January 2001 21:30
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Juanito,
TT_0 provided us with scanned government documents showing the components to a 2036 General Electric Time Machine..check out the other pages on this thread,and you'll find the url to them...
FastWalker2
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 02 January 2001 21:57
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You mean the photos of the paper that say 2036?? I could make those papers. I made birth certifcate and immigration papers that look more real then those papers. If u believe that those photos then I have a bridge to sell u in Brooklyn want to buy it is really cheap!!!!!
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andera
unregistered posted 03 January 2001 12:30
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can you tell again the link of that papers, which are you talking about, i wanna se it
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pamela
Member posted 03 January 2001 06:31
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Juanito-
hmmm, I don't remember ever posting that I beleived the wave rider was true.
As for timetraveler_0 , I have not posted everything we have discussed.
I have not been able to find a flaw in any of his discussions so far.
he has really opened my understanding of time travel.Things I would have never thought of before.
I will have to say, In some of his thinking he is "ahead of this time."
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 03 January 2001).]
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Fast
Member posted 03 January 2001 07:52
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Juanito,
when you have a seamless story that you came from 2036 in a General Electric Time machine and brought documents from the year 2036,then ill buy your bridge.
TT_0 could have said bloody NASA made the time machine,why did he choose General Electric?possibly because his story is true..?
and the documents are scanned,and look unedited.they also look photocopied.
so..
FastWalker2
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 03 January 2001 13:47
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I’ve been reading the last few postings with a bit of confusion. I see there is controversy over my “story” that is causing some people to ask themselves if they believe it or not.
For quite a while, I have been stating that not only do I not expect anyone to believe me, it’s irrelevant and in my opinion, quite dangerous. Belief implies that you accept what I say as true and real. Over the internet, this is impossible. In fact, I have stated before, there are many people in 2036 who do not believe in time travel.
As I stated before, I also think that unwavering belief is dangerous. One very disturbing thing I have noticed about your society in general is your blind acceptance of what you are told. Do you really think the news industry doesn’t have an agenda? Do you really think those hamburgers you stuff into your body are safe? Do you really think your government is telling you the truth? What proof do you have of any of that?
What I do want you to do is open your eyes to the events that happening around you that have nothing to do with me. Some of you have been reading for a while now about the war in 2015 and the breakthroughs in particle physics that would be coming soon. Doesn’t the CIA report on 2015 and news on the z-field compression at least support what I’ve been saying a little bit? I just saw another story today about the Russians moving Nuks into the Balkins to thwart any future expansion by NATO. I also haven’t heard anyone take me up on my “information experiment” on the IBM 5100 or check out the information I’ve given you about the UNIX failure in 2038. With all due respect… I find it hard to take some of you seriously.
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andera
unregistered posted 03 January 2001 15:51
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i have read all the 6 pages of this board, and i can see all is about the story of mister tt_0, i only can had 1 conclusion, its AMAZING; but just amazing, i mean the only thing we can do is belive or not, but cmon we are phisycs, we not belive, we KNOW, our knowledge is based on the brain, the belive is based on heart, its important belive in something but not be blind for this, i come to this board(whit another nick) a few months ago and you just talking about ways to travel in time, pure teorical phisics, but now this board seems like belive or not belive, love or not love the mister tt_0.
I am not against the m. tt_0, if he travel or not, for me is his problem, i mean the first time i read the m. tt_0 i think woao!!! a real time traveler!!, but a few seconds later, i was disapointed because i wanna be the man who make the time machine, i wanna be the first time traveler, and this guy come and said i travel in time, i was blue, but then i think may be i or we will be the builders of the time machine, but this only can hapen if we do phisycs, if we do teories, if we do experiments, ni mean, this cant hapen if we only are limited to belive and love or not belive and no love an "apparental time traveler", or if we just talk about "its true or not the time traveler".
In 6 pages of board you just talk about how will be the future, belive or not, our society is bad or not, cmon stop do this questions, the future we will see it in a few years, the society is so bad all of we know that, the war of 2015 will be (if be)for some valid reasons or not valid but we cant do anithing about that, or if we do it will be another line in time, so we never know if we do it or not.
So mi point is stop talk about "its true or not " and lets think about "how can we do a time travel". Just think, which one is the dream of all of us? and the chose betwen talk or think, belive or do it fact.
Sincerily andera
p.s. Answer me, i wanna know the comments of all of you
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TimeMaster 1a
Member posted 03 January 2001 18:19
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TimeTravel_0:
It is not logical that you would post the papers and diagrams and picture accecpt to give credibility to your story. The reality is that you are useing this forum to post your very subject views. You and I both know you are not from the future.It is not that you will not, but you can not post any evidence to the contrary.
However you have done your homework and tell a good story. Useing the Karr black hole as the bases for your time travel drvice is very good, although it will not produce time travel as you claim.
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Curious
unregistered posted 03 January 2001 19:07
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I think the point TT_0 was trying to make is wake up and look around. He really doesn't care if we believe him or not. He is just giving us a wake up call. I don't care if he can time travel or not. I am looking at the bigger picture. Him posting on this board is a small thing. So he can time travel or not. It's not such a big deal. In a world of infinite possibilities, every thing is probable. And what I believe doesn't effect this world at all, only me...........
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Shadow
unregistered posted 03 January 2001 21:11
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TT_O
Its been a long time since anybody has had to worry about converting IBM legacy code into more modern language. I'm not sure even when the 5100 was made, I'm guessing the early to mid '70s. The term geek hadn't even been invented yet. Before 1980 only overworked men with bad hearts ever saw a computer. In short, the supply of 5100 experts is probably too thin to show up on this small board. So wadda we know?
Heck, Colonel Corsoe & Co. would have us believe that the IBM line was copied from a crashed alien sauser.
The 2038 date bug in Unix is no secret. It just runs out of bit space for holding larger date code numbers. I worried a whole lot about the Y2K bug. I got my butt fooled. I lost half of my net worth AND two years of work. Whoopie. LET the friggen thing blow up, maybe somebody ELSE will get a well needed lesson.
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 03 January 2001 21:23
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I hope that you guys can see what I'm talking about. Look at the last post that Time traveler man posted. It's the same B.S.
I wonder if he knows of someone in the future with the initals JLR as he is 2 years old (the same age as our alleged time traveler). All I want to know is a simple fact from the future (other then the wars) like after GW Bush who will be the next President?? I mean if CNN can try to predict why can't our Time traveling friend.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 03 January 2001 23:12
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Well, no post in this forum can be complete without having my 2 cents added to it =). As an Activist, I agree with some of what TimeTravel_0 has mentioned. I have also been trying to get people to open their eyes. I have a website for just that purpose.
Please check it out. www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/
However, there is one thing I would like to know. TimeTravel_0 if in fact you have been to the future, what happens to JCS- ME =)? Am I deeply involved in this Time Travel project as well? What of the resistance?
Don't want to brag, but I too have had very real dreams of Time Traveling to the future. Some would seem like days, but be only a matter of hours passed. Other times I have visions and transmissions from the future. That's what one Dr. once said to me. I still experience these Time Distortions, or whatever they are. There pretty trippy.
Anyway's, it would only be natural that this is happening to me for a reason. =) So what do you know, if you have been to the future?
And hey Juanito, I like your critical perspective. Not to critical, and not to gullible, =) I sure could use someone like you in my resistance.
Truly,
Javier C.
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 03 January 2001 23:28
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Javier
Thanks, I try to keep things real. I believe that Time Travel is possible but I don't think TT_0 is a time traveler.
Sure I will like to join your quest for the truth where do I sign up.
Pamela and the other beleivers do u guys honestly believe this guy. Or is it that u want to believe.
I believe in GOD because I want to believe but I never seen GOD.
There is a big difference!!!!!
Juanito
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 03 January 2001 23:40
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BTW
Does anyone know how big an IBM 5100 is??
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DaViper
unregistered posted 04 January 2001 04:41
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Wow!
This is some thread huh! The longest and most debated one I've ever seen on this board.
(I trust everyone had a Happy New Year for the true Millenium.)
And especially want to wish Pamela the best in her continuing pursuits for truth in the next Thousand years.
For rgrunt:
It appears I may have publicly judged you too harshly. And I hereby appologize for anything that came across as a personal attack. Your post above has opened the door to a world of dialog that we may indeed find a way to come together on. You are no longer the faceless, dogmatic spewer of antiquated rhetoric I once thought you to be. (It does seem that this "paradox" issue has taken conversation on this board into directions I never thought possible. But then... God is the ultimate paradox is He/She not?)
Please understand that when you say ... "I do admit that the information I recieved came second hand so I trully cannot vouch for the accuracy." ...is something I suspected all along but can't help myself when it comes to jumping on the particular type of dogma that it represents. No Personal offense was ever intended.
Please also understand that when you say I "...claims that creation is completely proven wrong " ...
... that I DO NOT claim THIS at all. I merely state (without CLAIMING anything at all) that the account of creation as is metaphorically described in the Book Of Genesis in The Bible, first version, is just that. A metaphor. Not a true depiction of actual history in the literal sense.
I'm not disclaiming the existence of God here, or the CONCEPT of Creation per se. Nor am I saying that in so denying, that I am therefore subscriptive to the A-Theistic point of view. On the contrary.
In the true sprit of Paradox, (which this thread's topic is all about), I merely offer the easily verifiable evidence and duplicatable proof that such an occurance as the so-called Biblically depicted "great flood" is in itself a physically impossibility.
It would be a great leap of faith indeed for anyone to PRESUME from this statement that I in any way dispute the existence of God. But also be aware that while I do not refute His existence, I also do not accept it unconditionally. At least based on the words of one anthology that exists from the ancient days of Western European Mythology. Particularly since this Anthology to which I refer (The Bible) never existed in it's present form until the late 15th Century when Guttenburg invented the printing press that brought all these previously unconnected "Books" together. And even then, after much language translation from various sources such as Hebrew, Islamic, Christian, etc.
To place scientific credibility in such a document would be folly on the "wishful thinkers" of the world to say the least.
This is not to say that the document does not have value as a representative example of the moralistic values in any society in folklore, (including our own), but it needs to be studied in the true context of what it is. A historical account of the world as THOSE WHO LIVED AT THAT TIME saw it. The moral lessons contained therin may indeed be timeless, but the science is purly from the point of view of the then ignorant. (No offense to them, they simply didn't know any better.)
So ultimately Mr. Schasteen, please understand that from what I see in your last post, we may indeed not be that far apart on the moralistic or philosophistic level, but at the purely scientific level, well, as Einstein said, "God does not play Dice with the Universe."
And He (if he truly exists), DID NOT flood the entire Earth 6000 years ago, nor did He "create" the Earth in a matter of what we call "six days".
"He" MAY very well have "Created" it, and the rest of the Universe for that matter. I take no issue with this nor do I advocate the possibility either way. I'll leave the possibility of these matters to the likes of Dr. Stephen Hawking and others of his ilk who can present logical arguments that support BOTH points of view far better than my humble ability to elaborate upon.
For specifics though, I've already provided links to a number of sites where raidiometric dating processes can be studied and understood (I'll leave you to chase those down and do the same research I've already done), and hopefully leave you with the understanding that I also meant NO insult to you in any personal way.
After all, "rgrunt" and "DaViper" are just handles anyone can use to sign onto a BBS/Message board anywhere on the net and represent themselves to be anyone they wish to present themselves as.
In the end, it's the words and what one has to say that matter here.
And very little else.
Peace.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:24
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 7)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
DaViper
unregistered posted 04 January 2001 05:16
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TT_0:
Actually, I thought it was a pretty good story. I'd say your fiction skills are coming along quite nicely.
juanito:
Bigger than your palm pilot, your laptop, your desktop and even bigger than an IBM 4300 series.
But not as big as my grandfather's old Buick Roadmaster.
:-)
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P.Light
unregistered posted 04 January 2001 08:28
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To Juanito,
My friend i know where your coming from...
I've had a ...erm...falling out with T-T-0 in the past as you have no doubt seen if you have read the past messages.
Let me say one thing, He knows what he's talking about.
More than everyone else on this board i might add, aside from perhaps the moderators!!
Or else why would people be asking him so many questions about theories and things wev'e only dreamed about. Perhaps your right, perhaps he is only trying to open our eyes. But do you act on the information he has given us or do you dismiss it as pure fantasy? Open your eyes and think about what he has to say! I did and so did everyone else who post or even read this board
A sidenote... Rgrunt, what happened to your blackhole contraption?
Sincerly,
P. Light
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 04 January 2001 09:06
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Juanito,
I can't say about the others, but your right. I asked him questions I already know the answers to. If he answers them correctly, then he is from the future.
He's not the only one in this board who claims to have Time Traveled =).
Hey you and me lets stick together on this. There seems to be alot of team play action going on here. Alot of people watching each others backs, if you know what I mean.
Someone needs to set them stright . Well talk to you all later.
Truly,
Javier C.
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hello
unregistered posted 04 January 2001 12:12
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The government would have pulled those diagrams off of the web page they are on if they really believed timetraveler_0.
timetraveler_0 would have been traced and located, spied on and eventually his device stolen from the basement.
yep, happened to someone else I knew.
they even posed as the person for awhile.
you never know who you are talking to on the internet.he is right about that.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 04 January 2001 13:49
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That's true, even I'm being watched, and I haven't even posted anything of a national security nature .
-J.C.
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Roel van Houten
Member posted 04 January 2001 15:49
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Hi everyone,
Pamela, to respond to your previous post:
yes, we've had some snow over here, but it's raining cats and dogs again as usual.. :-)
From our point of view, lets just say "this worldline", timetravel does not yet exist. To put it in other words: timetravel will (probably) exist in the future, but assuming time goes by in chronological order it does not exist yet.
If we take a "non-linear" approach to time, timetravel does indeed already exist. It all just depends on the way you look at things. I guess we're both right in this case.
As for Timetravel_0. I'm very sceptic about the story he has provided us with. But it remains an interesting story nonetheless. It doesn't matter whether we believe it or not. At least he's caused a 6 page thread and he made people think about certain aspects of modern society. It's only logical that someone from the future has no gain in proving that he really is a timetraveler.
So lets just stick to the subject of timetravel instead of proving or disproving the story of Timetravel_0.
As for Juanito and TimeTravelActivist. Listen very carefully, I shall only say this once ;-) Perhaps it's a good idea to start a new thread called "The Resistance" or something similar. That would be a great opportunity to discuss the "danger" of timetravel and recruit new members.
Greetings from rainy Amsterdam, it feels like I'm freezing yet the water that falls from the sky does not :-))
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Trott
Member posted 04 January 2001 17:31
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The thing that I picked up from Mr. TT_0's recent post is that he seemed to be saying that time travel is not something you believe in or disbelieve. That is not how things work, you must discover and experiment not just take in what others may say. If people just sat around saying I believe it is possible to fly and never went out and tested it then we would never have made aviation possible. Likewise, we can neither definitively accept or deny TT_O's claim of being an actual time traveller until physical and hence experimental proof of time travel is obtained.
My past inquiries of TT_O were merely for my curiousity. I have never accepted or denied his claim. Although, I must admit the easiest and most uncomplicated solution would be that he is not. As far as that wave rider person, his statements on the fax are contrary to our historical line and hence I do not buy his story. I personally do not see how time travel could be possible just using the physical body and mind anyway.
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Fast
Member posted 04 January 2001 19:38
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thats why you work FOR the government...
so they cant steal your work because it is funded by THEM..
there work is usually less fringe science and more proven stuff,and they dont allow errors(error is a kind and benevolent god of inventors..jk)
TT_0,
in the 2036,do they still publish books?
if so,do they still have those Cliff Notes books?the yellow ones,about things like physics and geometry and common time displacement theory and such?
hint hint...
is the government regulating the time machine you used to get here,or are you free to do as you choose?
TimeTravelActivist,
why does everyone of your posts have to include something about IOTM??
FastWalker2
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 04 January 2001 22:38
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Roel van Houten,
You must be new here... Or else you would know.
I have started threads for the purpose of recruiting members into my campaign, how you mentioned I should. Some have gone to 7 pages as well... Might want to look them up.
In addition, to FastWalker2.
I only mentioned my website twice. What are you talking about me mentioning it every time I post? Count them...
Gotta go buy food for my cat , c-ya.
-J.C.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 05 January 2001 09:15
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TimeTravel_0,
So do you plan on keep avoid answering my questions? You been awfully quiet since I've returned... Time Traveling must keep you very busy huh.
-J.C.
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 05 January 2001 10:53
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Dear Deviper,
No offence taken I appreciate the posting for it taught me a good lesson not to post something that I can not readily anylize with my own senses. I will look up the information and if I find anything that supports either side I will post it at a later date. I will not endorce it til I have done the experiments myself though to ensure accuracy. I also have a great deal of respect for you in that you seem to be a man that truely seeks for the truth and are carefull to accept only the truth. The bible does say that those who seek the truth shall find it so I wish you success in your endeavors to sift out the truth of things and hope you to have a happy new year.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 05 January 2001 13:19
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Dear P-Light,
I appologize for the delay. I am now teaching myself geometry and calculas for I did not have the opportunity to learn these forms of math in high school. I was lucky to get a chance to learn algebra. After I have finished teaching myself these subjects I believe that I will have the knowlege to convert the theory behind the black hole device into a mathematical statement using calculas. Graphic proofs are great but all of the physics journals I have read are written using calculas to represent mathematically whatever measurement is being discussed in that particular journal. As for the device itself in light of my lack of education I went ahead and contracted it's development to a research and development firm by the name of Davison and Associates. The device is to be a generator for sale. But the generator operates on the same theory in that increase in electrical current and voltage is obtained by constricting a parallel probagating e and h field to a smaller given space. I am not aware of whether compressing and electric field or an electric field will power output of a generator but I know that focusing a magnetic field to a smaller area increases the strength of the field in that area like sunlight focused through a convex lense. And I believe one way to increase the electrical output of a generator is to increase the field strength of the magnets being used to generate the electricity. So I cannot see why the device will no produce higher electrical voltages at higher amperage. (all parts are powered by dc current)If one tries to focus a magnetic field that is generated by an alternating current the field will decrease in amperage as the field is constricted on acount that the frequency of the field is increased as the field is twisted up. Imagine a spring, if you will, and let each revolution in the helixical spring determine the frequency. If you twist the sring in the one direction the distance between the spring crests and troughs will decrease as the spring is tightened thus increasing the frequency of the spring. As a ac current frequency increases the ac output decreases. I imagine that dc is different. I could be wrong in my interpritation of the ac theorum I just stated.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 05 January 2001 13:46
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In 2036, community life is a bit different. People are valued and judged based on their contribution and worth. Work is organized around the family and the value of that work is assessed inside of the community. Most communities range in size from 1000 to 4000 people. If a family wanted to move from one community to another or if a son or daughter wanted to move to another community, they must apply and be interviewed by the community leadership council. During this process, the family or individual is evaluated as to whether or not the work or skill they have is required or necessary to that individual community. Once accepted, the family or individual is expected to uphold their end of the work and support the community. If they don’t, the community stops supporting them and they are forced to change their attitude or move away from the community.
The family work we did was picking, sorting and shipping oranges by sailboat up and down the coast of Florida. We were expected to produce a certain amount for the community and a certain amount for other communities as agreed to by our CLC. In exchange, we received power, water, a certain amount of food and other necessities that were produced inside our community.
I see this message board as a small community and I have no other way to value the contributions of others on it other than what my past experiences tell me. I have tried to answer as many questions as I can without being annoying, repetitive or inappropriate… and for some of you entertaining. Under these conditions, I have decided to seek guidance from all of you, the other members of this community, as to whether or not my postings are of any value to the direction of these discussions. If they are getting distracting or repetitive, I will stop and continue to enjoy reading your thoughts and ideas.
((Who receives the Nobel Prize for inventing time travel? Surely, since there is a divergence from your time line such information would be of no consequence to divulge.))
There are a great many people involved with the discovery of time travel. Just as I will not give “stock tips”, I will not divulge their names as that may impact their lives now.
((Timetraveler_0 have you ever heard of the "Waveriders"?))
No, I can’t say that I have although I am in no position to say if it’s true or not.
((What could you surmise, as to what might happen, as a result if you provided us with copies of various news articles in relation to "Technology Reports" published a year in our future, or any "Time" after (Such as in your "Worldline" as you so describe?))
If I had any and I published them, I’m sure they may have a large impact. Unfortunately, I don’t have any with me. Even if I did, I’m sure they would be scrutinized also. Again we get back to the same question. If you were a time traveler, what would you do to establish your credibility?
((You said that there were 7 other time travellers that you knew of who were on various missions from 2036 on your timeline. I am curious have people in 2036 been visited by people from further in the future? One would think that once time travel was possible and widely known that visitors from other time frames would be more likely to be visible and willing to be upfront about their visitation to the period after time travel, A.T.T (after time travel)).
No, I am not aware of time travelers visiting my worldline in 2036. However, that does not mean it can’t or isn’t happening. Also, the possible number of worldlines a time traveler might arrive at would place the chances of them hitting any particular one at very long odds.
((However, there is one thing I would like to know. TimeTravel_0 if in fact you have been to the future, what happens to JCS- ME =)? Am I deeply involved in this Time Travel project as well? What of the resistance?))
I have no idea what happens to you in your future. There was a resistance on my worldline but their goal was to maintain power and control over other people. We killed most of them by 2020.
(Does anyone know how big an IBM 5100 is??)
I would say its about 20” long, 10” high and 30” long.
((I've had a ...erm...falling out with T-T-0 in the past as you have no doubt seen if you have read the past messages.))
I’m not aware we had a falling out. I apologize if you think that’s the case.
((in the 2036,do they still publish books?
if so,do they still have those Cliff Notes books? the yellow ones,about things like physics and geometry and common time displacement theory and such?
hint hint... ))
Yes, books are still published. If I had any cliff notes with me I would let you decide if they should be posted or not.
((is the government regulating the time machine you used to get here, or are you free to do as you choose?))
The displacement machine is not mine but I am free to make certain decisions based on the experiences and information I gather from each worldline. I am expected back but from their perspective, I will only have been gone for a split second.
((So do you plan on keep avoid answering my questions? You been awfully quiet since I've returned... Time Traveling must keep you very busy huh.))
I’m not sure what questions you are referring to. You did ask one question about yourself, right below the link to your website. I am confused why you would think I would know anything about you.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 05 January 2001 15:24
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Thank you rgrunt. Peace and success to you likewise.
trott:
Well said.
I think sometimes poeple confuse "open minded" with "gullible".
Open minded is when you are ready (open) to recieve any information that can be enlightening or even just plain subjective to you. In this, all things are possible.
Except...
Being gullible. This is when you unquestioningly accept something just because someone else says so. One has to do one's own homework to get to real truth.
Gullibility then deteriorates into the worse condition of all. Self imposed ignorance. This is where one accepts as true, that which has ALREADY BEEN PROVEN to not be so. Or continues to believe that something is NOT so when it has been proven to be true. Those who still believe the world is flat fall into this last category. And they are STILL out there.
Maybe TT_O IS a Time Traveller. But his reluctance to offer any proof of such damages his credibility. Saying he "doesn't care" whether he is believed or not is really nothing more than a cop out. And allows him to side-step the issue of proof.
I cannot say for sure whether Time Travel is, or ever WILL be possible. I simply don't know. But I have a certain amount of confidence that TT_O is NOT one.
His story IS creative. But the physics just don't add up.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 05 January 2001 15:39
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Well that was a pretty interesting picture of the future you painted for us TimeTravel_0. Although, that is just 1 version of events. And your complete disregard of your Time Line will cease to exist now. Telling us this, will without a doubt change all that you described.
If in fact it's true hehe.
Personally, I know already that life will turn into one big collective in the future. Hence my resistance...
Individuality as people in the way we lead our lives, is no longer our choice. Then you know that my resistance will fight for the freedom to destroy oppression.
Further more, my identity in the future would most likely be changed ... Nevertheless, if you have been to the future, you know who I am.
No doubt about that...
-J.C.
[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 05 January 2001).]
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 05 January 2001 15:40
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(No Post)...
[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 05 January 2001).]
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observer
unregistered posted 05 January 2001 19:44
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TTO-
we enjoy reading your posts very much.please continue. we enjoy your contributions. You are obviously a very important part of this small "internet community".
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timetravel_1
unregistered posted 06 January 2001 12:45
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TT_0:
I belive you, i dont know why but i belive you, but i think the other guys need a real clue for belive you, so, i think you can take a photo of your clothes and post it, or your credencial, because if you work for the goberment, you need to had a credential of the gob in the future, and of curse you need to have clothes from the future, or you travel nude?
And what about the social system in the future, its so like socialism, only there one thing wrong, on socialism theres no religion, so please tell me, in the future the church stop to steal money, and manipulate people, or how works the structure of the church in the future?
I had just another question, what happen in the future whit mexico and the latinamericans.
Atte: a fan of you, TT_1.
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 16:02
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TT_0
There is an expression that is used here in this "time".
Shit or get off the pot.
Just start naming historical figures in your "time" or stop saying that you are a time traveler
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 06 January 2001 16:33
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Well, what do we have here ? There seems to be some Latino homiez in da house here... I'm part Hispanic too bro's.
Hey, listen up... As a Time Traveler to the future my self, I have seen the uniforms. I have even put one on. Therefore, if TimeTraveler_0 can offer us a picture of his uniform as proof, I will verify it's legitimacy with the one I wore.
However, I wouldn't count on you actually telling us the truth... I know people, and I can sense when they are telling the truth, and when they are lying.
Isn't that right people? (Those of you who know me, when have I ever been wrong about people?). I told you so, so many times .
Anyway's, if you can get this picture and I know you can't. I would like to establish a real-time chat. We will invite 3 or 5 members to represent each side.
Your side, claiming to have Time Traveled and making a big public notice about it. And me, who will set the record straight and who will verify your story. Let me just let you know right now; this won't be an easy chat for you. There will be no more posts where you can think of what to say and take your time with.
You will be caught in lies either by me, or my side of members.
So, are you up to the challenge? Answer A.S.A.P. by Go or No-Go. However, if your answer is No-Go, please supply a statement saying why.
Got to go for now.
-J.C.
[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 06 January 2001).]
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 16:38
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Javier
If you are really a time travler how is the President after GW Bush?
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timetravel_1
unregistered posted 06 January 2001 17:31
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TimetravelActivist:
I'll go
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Shadow
unregistered posted 06 January 2001 19:12
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To Timetravel Activist;
you've been here longer than TT_O and we are still waiting for YOU to prove that you have ever been to the future. I'm going to the future too, one day at a time. When I get there, I'll STILL be waiting for you to prove it.
Here is a little test for you. What is your opinion of the Montauk material?
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 06 January 2001 19:22
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timetravel_1 whom's side will you be arguing for?
Anyone else?
Juanito, I am not a Time Traveler like TimeTraveler_0 claims to be. I didn't get into any machine from the future or anything like that.
No, my connection to Time and its nature is unique. I've had it since birth. There is no way to truly explain how I know or seen the future. Nevertheless, everyday I'm finding out new things .
And about GW Bush, I don't know what to tell you. Although I have an uncle that looks like him .
-J.C.
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 19:31
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J.C.
Can u predict my future??
Why is the government watching you??
Juanito
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 06 January 2001 19:39
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Shadow,
Have I never explained my self?
Thousands of times, and in the best way I know how.
How many times have I said that the future is a @$#%!* place?
How many times have I said to band Time Travel?
Have you ever seen my website?
It's been there for the longest time, explaining how I feel about Time Travel, and what we as concerned people should do.
I don't need to say I am a Time Traveler like TimeTraveler_0 to tell you what I have seen. In addition, I don't claim to have been from the future how TimeTraveler_0 states he is. I have explained that I have this connection to it, enabling me to see things.
Check my past posts and my website, I don't speak of it directly like TimeTraveler_0 did, but you get the general idea of what I am trying to mean.
Here it is again http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/ also read the information about me page.
Sincerely,
Javier C.
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Time02112
Member posted 06 January 2001 19:51
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TT_0 thanks for the reply RE: sharing future technological reports, or publications...
You have expressed an inability to provide them now, for lack of having any with you, before you arrived in our "Worldline"
Could you please make a note, to remind yourself to bring them with you on your "Next Visit" here?
(Providing there will be another "Visit")
Meanwhile, why not use your memory to paint us a more "Specific" picture of your worldline, by providing us with some more "Detailed" information that would provide to those who may be more skeptical? in the least by accepting this challange (instead of avoiding it) what harm would it possibly bring? if you keep out any information that may not be acceptably permissable in order to prevent any clandestine repercussions of the future outcome of a series of events which are crucial to our future to come, so that they may play out their roles, as they were intended, I can only see that there are still many variable details that you "CAN" Disclose to us that would not be this detrimental, and only "Add" to your Credability.
One good example of such, I would like to ask you to disclose the names of these "Five Presidents" that you mentioned earlier.
*Who:> Who are they?
and who are those involved with breathing life into this supposed NWO, that many people in our current world-line are so afraid of?
*What:> A.)What are their primary, and post secondary functions within the New GVT?
B.) What is the extent of their Authoritive positions of power?
C.) What is our New GVT like, compared to our worldline's current GVT?
(is it anything Like the Dreded NWO as predicted?, or did this dictatorial NWO rise to power as prohecised, and suddenly get defeated?*(was this what you implyed by your earlier comment represented by the nuber of those slain, that attempted to "control" the free citizens?)
*Where:> Where do they reside?
*When:> When do each of them officialy acquire their respective positions of Authority?
Why:> Why did the New GVT suddenly enlist five Presidents?
(Anyone else care to jump on this & add more questions pertaing?)
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Juanito
Junior Member posted 06 January 2001 19:51
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JC
Why is the gov't after u??
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 06 January 2001 19:56
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Juanito,
Slow down high speed … I don't know your future; it's what you want it to be. If you are determined to do something with your life, then you will do it.
How I am determined to do something about Time Travel someday, I know what will be my fate.
Nevertheless, if your looking for a fortune forecast, I'm not the right person to see about that. Maybe not now anyway's .
-J.C.
P.S. How I know I am being watched? You asked me in an e-mail. Let me just say that if you were to spend a day in my shoes you’d see what I mean. I can’t explain it, you have to experience it. A teacup cannot break the same way twice, or so I once thought.
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Trott
Member posted 06 January 2001 23:49
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Assuming time travel is possible. I do not see how one could band it from being used. In fact, how would one even know that it was used? If you buy into the multiple universe intrepretation of quantum mechanics, would not the time traveller simply pop out of existence in our universe never to be seen again? How would it be possible to band time travel in the infinite multitude of parallel universes, since each universe represents one of an infinite albeit different sequence of events/choices? To "fight" against the infinite diversity of existence in all of its infinite combinitations does not seem logical (at least to me that is). And if you do not buy the multiverse idea, then if time travel is to be used it can not be stopped since time travel would only be possible on closed time like curves, i.e. self-fulfilling destinies in a manner of speaking. Personally, I do not even see how it is possible for one to realize that they were in a closed timelike loop much less escape it. For all things would be as they were as they are and as they will be. Actually, a lack of multiple universes seems a little depressing to me. It seems it would imply an unchangeable fate, for whatever actions we take we were destined to and no matter what technologies we may think up would be able to erase the mistakes of our past or change the past course of our existence. And if that is in fact the case, the only real benefit time travel would have is for scientific and historical purposes. Unless, you were killed by a time traveller from the future but if that happens you need not worry because it was suppose to happen!
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Lara
unregistered posted 07 January 2001 01:15
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I like your thinking Trott.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 07 January 2001 07:06
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I also like your thinking trott. The idea of "banning" Time Travel has already been dealt with in fiction. I can't remember the author, but it appeared in one of the Hugo Annual Anthologies.
The premise is, if you have a machine that can travel in time, you can just as easily use it to simply "see" into the future (or past) without having to actually travel there.
You can set it to whatever period you like. 1 million years from now. Or 100. Or even 1/10th of a second from now.
Why would you choose this latter setting? Why, to see into your neighboor's bedroom of course. 1/10th of a second into the future is virtually like being there now.
This is why it was banned.
:-)
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Fast
Member posted 07 January 2001 13:14
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DaViper,
i wasnt aware that time travel had been banned..
Trott,
if they wanted to ban time travel,"they" could kill you off when you returned..
TTA,
i remember some time ago on the artbell show,some woman claimed to be a "born time traveler".She said she would occasionally slip in and out of other time lines.she said she always returned to where she left off in our time.
is this the way it is with you?
FastWalker2
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Roel van Houten
Member posted 07 January 2001 16:02
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Hi people,
I agree with Trott here... Banning time-travel (if time-travel is possible in the first place) seems virtually impossible.
However I find it very disturbing that people would want to ban time-travel. That's like trying to stop the invention of computertechnology. Time-travel may prove to be very useful in the future.
TimeTravelActivist: You are right, I haven't been around long enough to know what you're all about. However, after reading your website I decided that your story is just as trustworthy as Timetravel_0s'story, but it lacks evidence. Yet you want him to prove that he's a timetraveler. Don't you think that's a little bit unfair?
Greetings from rainy Amsterdam
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 07 January 2001 17:20
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Roel van Houten
How is it unfair? He says he can prove it, he has the evidence necessary to.
What do I have? Just my own experiences as proof. If anything, it's unfair to me. I have nothing to bring out in the open.
Fast,
I'd like to hear this news broadcast. Sounds like something I might be experiencing. Once when I was 7, I told my sister, Abraham Lincoln wasn't supposed to have been killed. Ever since then, she still thinks I'm a bit crazy . Go fig…
-J.C.
P.S. Baning Time Travel to exploit the past is what I meant. You people took me to literal, everybody knows that that’s what I always mean by baning it …
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Fast
Member posted 07 January 2001 21:36
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TTA,
she said that she had woken up in other times,and came back with bruises that she didnt know where she got..
ever since Art Bell quit the show,they've stopped holding his Streamed Audio Shows,so you'll probably have to look around..or call Art.
FastWalker2
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P.Light
unregistered posted 07 January 2001 23:53
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To T-T-A
Im in though i will have to decide "For" or "Against" i shall message you when i have an answer.
Sidenote No.2-----Gullible or Open minded?
Makeing a long story short:--- OPEN MINDED
(Take in the information given,opinions of others,your own opinion, throw in a few theories, Quotes and more information, and go from there!) Naturally there is more to that but the basics are there. Its all about the scientifics. Who would have thought that we could clone animals? Whats to stop us Cloning people?(As you may have heard)
P.Light
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 08 January 2001 21:14
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Good evening, morning , or afternoon everybody,
For a year or two I have started to pay attention to a phenomenon that most people including myself had noticed but taken for granted. The phenomenon is that some days appear to be longer then others. I cannot count the number of times that I felt it was 5:30 pm in the afternoon then go to check the clock and notice that it is only 2:00 pm, merely an hour after I had last checked. Also, I cannot count the number of times that I have thought that it was 2:00 pm in the afternoon and go to check the clock only to find out that it is 5:30 pm. One or two years ago I began to suspect that time itself was indeed fluctuating. So on days that felt longer I asked others if the day was going by fast to them. To my surprize the answer was unanimous. Everyone also felt that the day was going by slower then usual, too. I was looking at an astronomy book last week and noted that space-time is expanding. At the begining of the universe the temperatures of the universe was extremely high and decreased as space expanded. Now I questioned whether there would be any difference if the actual size of the universe were getting bigger as the universe expanded keeping space uniform in density or whether the size of the uniform were fixed and the addition of new space-time resulted in an everincreasing space-time density. I reasoned that the results would be the same for energy occupies space. If the quantity of energy is kept constant and more and more space is crammed into the quantity energy ones first intuition is to assume that the energy per unit volume will increase as a result of the increased compression of space. But this is wrong in fact the energy per unit volume will decrease as a result of compressed space. The reason is that when one compresses a greater quantity of space-time into a constant quantity of energy the energy occupies a greater volume of space. As energy occupies more space the density of the energy decreases as a result of expansion of the energy which is defined as energy occupying greater volumes of space. Now If mass occupies a greater quantity of energy: the energy(that is not mass) will expand and decrease in density. Also energy is generated by friction as the mass is crushed to a smaller volume. This extra energy is neglected in the former statement in that it is the free energy in the form of heat/light that we are interested in not the energy created by the crushing of the mass nor the energy added by the exertion of kenetic force to crush the mass to a smaller volume. As mass increases the energy expands. As energy increases mass expands decreasing in density which is the principle behind the function of hot air baloons. As space increases exponentially and as the number of points increases exponentially the density of space is increased. As the density of space is increased the temperature of space is decreased as the constant thermal energy constant occupies more space. If space increased from all pionts no energy will be created by friction since no space is forced to move into tighter quantities on acount that the number of points is increased symetrically to the increase in volume of space. Now as energy is increased per unit volume time becomes accelerated for that volume as is manifested in a heated object as the molecules of a heated object is sped up relative molecules in cooler masses outside that object.
Edwin G. Schasteen
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 08 January 2001 21:26
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I noticed last week that time was dragging nearly taking up nearly twice the time then normal for a given day. I also noticed that it was sunny and the humidity level was low and thermal properties high. Today is monday and I and the rest of the people I worked with noticed that the day went by dramatically faster then normal...taking up nearly a quarter the time for a day then any given day last week took. I also noticed that there was a large increase in humidity and it even rained today harder then it had in the whole year. As temperature within water decreases within water the molecules slow down and time also slows down for that object on acount that time is a measurement of a number of events accurring per given instant multiplied by the velocity of those events squared. (If those events have a velocity of light) and the number of events accuring per given instant multiplied by the velocity of events.(if the velocity is subluminal) I could be wrong in that time may be the number of events times the square of the velocity regardless of the velocity with respect to the velocity of light.) So as water increased in the atmosphere the energy perunit volume expanded by occupying the water molecules in our area resulting in a decrease in the velocity at which time traveled within our given region which is why my day went much faster today.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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WntUlikeToknow
unregistered posted 08 January 2001 23:12
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E.G.S
Do you realize that the english language lies mortally wounded at the feet of your previous two posts?
Ok, so time is subjective. Scientists disagree.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 16:26
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 8)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Time02112
Member posted 09 January 2001 05:42
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BTW TT_0
Care to elaborate any further info on the "Other" Time~Travelers from "Your" World-Line"???
*What are the other TT's worldline destinations, and missions?
*Are any of them, besides yourself, on our current worldline that you are aware of?
*Are you in contact by some special means with any other TT's? (if so, How is this done?)
*How is it possible to send a message through Time?
(Please Review my earlier Questions)
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 09 January 2001 09:28
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((Could you please make a note, to remind yourself to bring them with you on your "Next Visit" here?))
I will not be returning to this worldline.
((Meanwhile, why not use your memory to paint us a more "Specific" picture of your worldline, by providing us with some more "Detailed" information that would provide to those who may be more skeptical?))
I think skepticism is a good thing and no one should lose it.
((by accepting this challange (instead of avoiding it) what harm would it possibly bring?))
I’m not sure what “challenge” you are referring to. If you mean the live chat, I have no problem with that. I do that quite often on other boards. However, I fear I have very few bread and circuses left and I fear I am becoming quite boring. Also, I’m not sure I fully understand the nature of the challenge.
http://communities.msn.com/THETIMETRAVELCOMMUNITY
((if you keep out any information that may not be acceptably permissable in order to prevent any clandestine repercussions of the future outcome of a series of events which are crucial to our future to come, so that they may play out their roles, as they were intended, I can only see that there are still many variable details that you "CAN" Disclose to us that would not be this detrimental, and only "Add" to your Credability. ))
Again, I do not seek to add to my credibility. There is no point to it. Actually, by providing information that was usefull, I would be adding to your collective fear that I am real. In that case, this cycle we are in concerning “truth” only spirals and gets worse.
((One good example of such, I would like to ask you to disclose the names of these "Five Presidents" that you mentioned earlier.))
Over the past few postings, I have tried to describe the limits of what I will talk about and why. Here is a short recap list. In future postings, I will place the following number next to each question as to why I will not discuss it.
1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.
2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bombing information.
3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well being.
((*Who:> Who are they?…)) --------- 3
((…and who are those involved with breathing life into this supposed NWO, that many people in our current world-line are so afraid of?))
On my worldline, we are no longer afraid of the “NWO”. Are you afraid of Nazis?
((*What:> A.)What are their primary, and post secondary functions within the New GVT?))
The reason the job of President was split into an office of 5 has 4 main reasons. With 5, foreign policy is more consistent, power shifting between parties has less of an impact on the overall government, individual strengths between presidents add to the strength of the overall office, and one president is elected for each major area in the United States.
((B.) What is the extent of their Authoritive positions of power?))
The office of President is far more diluted and decentralized than it is here. The powers of the national government are more defined and reside more at the county and state level.
((C.) What is our New GVT like, compared to our worldline's current GVT?))
I think the new government is good. However, since the concept of nationally subsidized welfare is gone, most people here may not appreciate it.
((*Where:> Where do they reside?))
The new US capitol is in Omaha Nebraska.
((*When:> When do each of them officialy acquire their respective positions of Authority?))
The voting for individual candidates is on a rotating schedule.
((*What are the other TT's worldline destinations, and missions?))
I am not aware of the details of other missions. Of the seven, three had already left before I did. I suspect they are on similar missions.
((*Are any of them, besides yourself, on our current worldline that you are aware of?))
No, the chances of that are very slim.
((*Are you in contact by some special means with any other TT's? (if so, How is this done?))
No, although I would suspect that is not impossible I have no idea how you would do that.
((*How is it possible to send a message through Time?))
Unless the information physically travels with the person, not that I'm aware of.
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 09 January 2001 11:01
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I appologize,
I meant to say that time was accelerated and the energy per unit volume lower at our respective position as a result of the increased density of air as a result of increased humidity. I donnot mean to say that time actually slows down but sequence of events are accelerated outside the reqion of higher humidity with respect to those events within the region of higher humidity as a result of the area of higher humidity having a lower energy density then the region of lower humidity. This is indeed counter intuitive and requires a unique perspective of the model to totally understand. Most scientist would agree that higher energy densities occupy masses of higher density. This is because the masses of higher density will have atoms with more electrons and protons enabling higher angles of energy deflection within the mass prolonging the period of time required for the free propagation energies to permiate through the solid medium. When I speak of eneries I am refering to the electro-magnetic spectrum. I would like to appologize for butchering the english language in my last two postings, but I was on a timer and did not have time to hit the 'spell check' button. In short, I really do wander if there is a sort of time dialation within the atmosphere caused by the fluctuating levels of temperature and humidity. Can anyone coment? I was also realizing that by compressing energy to a smaller volume of space that space would likewise expand taking on lesser density even without having to stretch at all. This would mean that the total volume density of a volume of space is defined mathematically as S=1/e^2 where S is the density of space and e is the density of energy. (a side note to Plight: this is part of the mathematical model for the device in that as the radius of the magnetic field decreases to zero at 180 degrees torque: the energy density of the field increases to infinity as the space-time density decreases to zero. Beyond 180 degrees torque the energy density of space space-time aquires a negative density according to the equation S=1/e^2 where e^2 rises above infinity(infinity not being true infinity but a convenient label for the unknown limit value of e^2.)and the corresponding S value takes on a negative value.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 09 January 2001 11:03
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I appologize,
I meant to say that time was accelerated and the energy per unit volume lower at our respective position as a result of the increased density of air as a result of increased humidity. I donnot mean to say that time actually slows down but sequence of events are accelerated outside the reqion of higher humidity with respect to those events within the region of higher humidity as a result of the area of higher humidity having a lower energy density then the region of lower humidity. This is indeed counter intuitive and requires a unique perspective of the model to totally understand. Most scientist would agree that higher energy densities occupy masses of higher density. This is because the masses of higher density will have atoms with more electrons and protons enabling higher angles of energy deflection within the mass prolonging the period of time required for the free propagation energies to permiate through the solid medium. When I speak of eneries I am refering to the electro-magnetic spectrum. I would like to appologize for butchering the english language in my last two postings, but I was on a timer and did not have time to hit the 'spell check' button. In short, I really do wander if there is a sort of time dialation within the atmosphere caused by the fluctuating levels of temperature and humidity. Can anyone coment? I was also realizing that by compressing energy to a smaller volume of space that space would likewise expand taking on lesser density even without having to stretch at all. This would mean that the total volume density of a volume of space is defined mathematically as S=1/e^2 where S is the density of space and e is the density of energy. (a side note to Plight: this is part of the mathematical model for the device in that as the radius of the magnetic field decreases to zero at 180 degrees torque: the energy density of the field increases to infinity as the space-time density decreases to zero. Beyond 180 degrees torque the energy density of space space-time aquires a negative density according to the equation S=1/e^2 where e^2 rises above infinity(infinity not being true infinity but a convenient label for the unknown limit value of e^2.)and the corresponding S value takes on a negative value.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 09 January 2001 11:19
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It sounds more like your backing out TT_0.
Why not answer my posts directly and on the same week as I posted them?
You sound fearful...
You say you cannot disclose information that may threaten to change people in this worldline personally. Though you have no idea how much you have changed people already with your big mouth.
Let me ask you something... Let's assume for a minute that you are a Time Traveler. Tell me, what is the policy when encountering an unknown variable?
You came into this discussion board for reasons that only you would know. To accomplish something that you thought would benefit us? Or to relinquish some make believe fantasy you had?
Who knows...?
But hey, don't get me wrong, I used to play Cops and Robbers too. Super heros are cool . But when you came here, you didn't come here as a call to save humanity... did you? No, there was something else wasn't there?
Well, it sounds to me that your stay here is numbered. I can only imagine what peril this will bring upon you once you get back.
I can only say, thanks. You've restored my will to keep up my fight to stop people like you messing up the TimeLine.
And oh, that unknown variable, it's me. You didn't plan on encountering resistance. Especially a TimeTravelActivist. Hey this sounds more like something that would happen at the end of a Scobby Do cartoon . "You rotton kids..."
I suggest you don't underestimate the past and think you can waltz in here assuming nothing can go wrong. You may be the Traveler, but I'm a native to this land. Take a lesson from history, and just respect people's domain.
That's assuming that you are a Time Traveler. But personally I think your just playing into people's fascination with TimeTravel. Why else would you be here, in a TimeTravel discussion Forum, claiming to be a TimeTraveler? You tell people what they want to hear, of course there going to believe you. You only keep them guessing and their fantasy going.
I gotta go, but you just think about doing that again in another message board, you can expect the same results. Someone out there, is a TimeTravelActivist just like me, ready to speak out. Remember that...
-Javier C.
[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 09 January 2001).]
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 09 January 2001 12:24
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To: TimeTravelActivist
I apologize for being unable to respond faster. I looked back and couldn’t find any questions but I may be mistaken.
I also see that you seem to have a great deal of anger directed at me. If you knew where I was and how to get the distortion unit, what would you do? What judgment and punishment should be passed upon me?
On this and many other discussion boards are people who are genuinely interested in and hoping to experience or discover time travel. What punishment would you apply to them if the succeed? I see that you too have had time travel experience. What punishment do you deserve?
When time travel was discovered, there were many people who were against its development. However, once the true nature of time was realized, the resistance faded. Even if one worldline was able to ban, kill and stop all time travel, it will continue on another.
However, the corollary is also true. Take heart, on some worldline, you have succeeded and all time travelers are dead by the hand of your followers and thinking or talking about it is a crime.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 09 January 2001 12:25
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To: TimeTravelActivist
I apologize for being unable to respond faster. I looked back and couldn’t find any questions but I may be mistaken.
I also see that you seem to have a great deal of anger directed at me. If you knew where I was and how to get the distortion unit, what would you do? What judgment and punishment should be passed upon me?
On this and many other discussion boards are people who are genuinely interested in and hoping to experience or discover time travel. What punishment would you apply to them if the succeed? I see that you too have had time travel experience. What punishment do you deserve?
When time travel was discovered, there were many people who were against its development. However, once the true nature of time was realized, the resistance faded. Even if one worldline was able to ban, kill and stop all time travel, it will continue on another.
However, the corollary is also true. Take heart, on some worldline, you have succeeded and all time travelers are dead by the hand of your followers and thinking or talking about it is a crime.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 09 January 2001 15:47
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TT_0,
You still didn't answer my questions. Instead you went off the subject, and attempted to blame me for something I have no control over.
Let's set the record straight here. If TimeTravel is used wisely, ethically, and with intentions that don't allow for an advantage in which ever side is using it. Then I am fine with it.
But, if it is used to go back and change events in favor of a world governmets hidden agenda, then yes I would like them to be punished. How would you like to be exploited? Who likes being used...?
So in retro-pects, I sense you have anger in me, for having morals and a sense of ethics on this issue of Time Travel. I don't want this ability to be used by eager selfish people who want to play God with life.
Excuse me, but I may be a bit old fashion, but traditions and ways of life are things to hold on to. Sure, advancement of the human race is a good ideal to have as well, but not through the means of Time Travel.
So in conclusion, I still await your answers to my questions. What do you have to lose that you haven't already messed up already.
I mean no disrespect, but you don't seem to have the wisdom that I would expect someone from an advanced future would have. Your ideals are to liberal, much like in the 70's where things were all about Sex, drugs and free love. Nasty...
No, The worldline you described sounds defeated, desperate, will accept everything new without question.
You sound the same exact way. Reading over your last post I couldn't help but feel that. If you are an example of what people in the future feel about life, if you per-se are like a representative of that TimeLine. I'll tell you what, that TimeLine, that world sucks.
That's all for now, I gotta get back to work.
Sincerely,
Javier C.
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pamela
Member posted 09 January 2001 19:45
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Hi everybody. Im back.
getting use to my new computer system.
I was going to post something here and reference it to a previous post but for some reason those two postings have disappeared and I have been over and over pages 5,6,7,and 8 and cannot find it at all.
It was a posting by TTO replying to ,I believe ,Trott. he made a cryptic message to him asking him if he ever heard the "Princeton string quartet play." and trott responded back that he knew who the scientists were in the Princeton string quartet. I cannot find these two interesting postings at all. Does anyone know where they are? The only one that can delete postings completely are the moderators.MOP,DYMENZION did you delete them? Trott and TTO are not even registered to edit their postings.
My question is WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE POSTINGS???????????????????????????????
Anyway I cannot refer back to them now so I will just tell you one of CERN'S employees has recommended to me to read "QED" the strange theory of light and matter. by Richard P. Feynman. I was hoping it was not a big book when I got the book, at the top of it, in purple and white were these words:
PRINCETON SCIENCE LIBRARY
(Princeton, New Jersey
Princeton University press)
anyway I am curious about the missing postings. TTO take a look back...do you know what happened to it? if so write me.maybe I am just overlooking it.although I checked over those pages 4 times!
thanks.
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 16 January 2001).]
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Time02112
Member posted 09 January 2001 22:37
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I too have made referrence to this (QED) Book, matter of fact I just lent it out of the TAP-TEN Library to Gary Schasteen on his last visit to my house!
I am suprised that this was overlooked?
Oh well, I am also a very talented musician.
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pamela
Member posted 10 January 2001 12:03
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I found it, it was in the parallel universe thread. I knew i had read it.
TTO:
"You’re a physics student, have you ever heard the Princeton String Quartet play?"
TROTT:
"Mr. TT_0,
I am familiar with the Princeton String Quartet. They are physicist who are working on string theory at the Advanced Institute of Physics at Princeton University in New Jersey."
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 10 January 2001).]
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 10 January 2001 01:13
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E(8) x E(8)?
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 10 January 2001 15:27
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(E8)x(E8)=? S=1/E^2
E^2*64,
E^2=1/64
S=1/64
S^1/2=((1/3)/8))
1=.999...n
1^1/2=.333...n,1 and -1.
If E is energy density and S is Space-time fabric density.
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Trott
Member posted 10 January 2001 21:08
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E(8)x E(8) = SuperGravity
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Trott
Member posted 10 January 2001 21:14
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Mr. TT_0,
You mentioned a divergence from time lines. How is it possible to measure such a divergence? I would assume that it would be impossible to calculate how causes of one single event would propagte into the future. Does not chaos theory make such determinations impossible? Even if I gave you the exact position and velocity of all objects in the universe (which is impossible(I can not even give you the exact position and velocity of a single object due to the Heisenberg Uncertainity Principle)) you could not tell me what the future holds. Of course this results from the fact that the objects do not represent individual closed systems but in fact can interact.
P.S.
You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current theory suggests that there should be at least 7 curled up dimensions. It was discovered by Ed Witten that if you added an additional dimension that the 5 slightly different versions of string theory would combine into a single theory, which is often called M-theory.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 10 January 2001 23:10
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((You mentioned a divergence from time lines. How is it possible to measure such a divergence?))
The measurement for worldline divergence is an observation variable isolated to the distortion unit. An effective analogy would be a “gravity radar”. The unit’s sensors take a “snapshot” of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere). The percentage of VGL divergence from one worldline to another is a calculated guess by the three computers that control the unit based on its starting point. It is useless in describing characteristics of individual worldlines.
There is a bit of folklore about the first distortion driver who reaches a destination with a zero divergence. This would mean they had traveled on a spacelike trip to their own worldline of origin. This paradox is quite possible although highly unlikely. I wonder if anyone out there can take current string theory and make that one work on paper?
((You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current theory suggests that there should be at least 7 curled up dimensions.))
I may be mistaken but I thought it was pretty well established now that (N -10) was on track.
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TimeMaster 1a
Member posted 11 January 2001 02:46
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What is a WORLDLINE?
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DaViper
unregistered posted 11 January 2001 03:58
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Direct quote from the Home Page of this Board:
"The Time Travel Institute, although entirely fictional, still respects your privacy."
(Smile)
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 11 January 2001 05:03
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TT_0,
I take it you have no further comments or intentions of answering my last post?
Considering what answering may undermine, I can respect you sudden silence.
Anymore dialogue between you and me and I could very well end up discrediting your claims of being a Time Traveler.
Or on the other hand, may very well end up supporting my point about Time Travelers intentions.
Either way, if you wish to have a real dialogue, and meet my challenge, I still await your answer. In addition, don't answer what and when is convenient for you. There have been a few past posts requesting that you supply answers to. And you have only come up with what seems to be something that is just convenient enough for someone to quickly study in a book and post as your own knowledge.
So enough stalling…
Have a nice day,
Javier C.
P.S. Here’s another one you can try answering for me . I been meaning to ask you, what is your fascination with posting “kill” as your futures means of punishment? This is the 2nd time you’d mentioned it. Don’t you have a criminal justice system in the future anymore? Or is “killing” just your thing?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 January 2001 09:04
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I must admit TTA, you have succeeded in confusing me. The more I read your postings, the more I question my understanding and local use of social interaction, courtesy and logic. However, I also believe that all viewpoints have some inherent value even if it’s not apparent.
((I take it you have no further comments or intentions of answering my last post?))
I took a look at your last posting and didn’t see any questions. However, I now realize that I may be mistaken in assuming much of what you wrote was rhetorical. In may be helpful if you add some indication that you are asking a question you wish someone to comment on.
((However, there is one thing I would like to know. TimeTravel_0 if in fact you have been to the future, what happens to JCS- ME =)? Am I deeply involved in this Time Travel project as well? What of the resistance?))
This is the only question I found from your postings that you could be referring to. Again, I have no knowledge of you in any possible future nor would I comment on it if I did. As far as the photograph of me in a uniform, I’m not sure what that would prove even if I had one.
((Anymore dialogue between you and me and I could very well end up discrediting your claims of being a Time Traveler.))
I do not seek credit for anything. The most I hope for (for the most part) is to be at least interesting and engaging.
((Either way, if you wish to have a real dialogue, and meet my challenge, I still await your answer.))
Perhaps I was unclear before. I did provide the web link earlier that does have a chat room set up for time travel. My schedule is a bit more flexible right now at least for the next week or so. Please take a look and let me know when you will be there (open to anyone of course). Since there really is nothing to be gained or lost, I look at this not as a challenge but more of an opportunity to get to know everyone better.
((In addition, don't answer what and when is convenient for you. There have been a few past posts requesting that you supply answers to. And you have only come up with what seems to be something that is just convenient enough for someone to quickly study in a book and post as your own knowledge.))
I’m not sure what you mean by that. In earlier postings, I have stated that I’m trying to avoid repeating myself and frankly there are some items that are just over my head or that I have no knowledge of. It is curious that you feel knowledge can be something owned or somehow that becomes less worthwhile if it’s passed on.
((P.S. Here’s another one you can try answering for me . I been meaning to ask you, what is your fascination with posting “kill” as your futures means of punishment? This is the 2nd time you’d mentioned it. Don’t you have a criminal justice system in the future anymore? Or is “killing” just your thing?))
Perhaps you could take the dialogue in question and post it with your question. However, if I understand you, you’re asking about death on my worldline. Yes, it is more a part of our lives than it is yours (at least for now) and capitol punishment is a reality.
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Fast
Member posted 11 January 2001 10:41
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TT_0,
why would you travel back to our time looking for a UNIX Bug Fix when the people in your time could simply try to fix it themselves??
what will you be using UNIX for,BTW?
In the future,are the overall temperatures cooler or hotter than they are here and now?
in an earlier post,you said Skeptisism isnt a bad thing,but you seem to back down to TTA and answer few if any of his questions..Why?
FastWalker2
[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 11 January 2001 11:35
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Uhh ya =)... Good point there.
Gotta get to work, more later.
-Javier C.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 January 2001 11:49
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I don't believe I ever said I came back looking for a UNIX bug fix. I came back for a computer system. Don't you find UNIX usefull now?
Temprature is about the same although there were anomalies after the war.
Fast... if you are able to translate exactly what the questions are, I would be happy to try and answer.
Just curious....what does everyone think of "IT"? (ginger)
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Buzz
unregistered posted 11 January 2001 11:55
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I have some questions for Time traveler_0,
I see you take things from this world to bring back to your own world. books, computers what have ya. as well as probably the other TT do as well.
Do you pay for those items? or do you just "steal" them?
what do you pay with if you pay?
If you dont pay how is it justified to steal from another world?
could not a TT (time traveler)basically take whatever they wanted from any time?
for example: They would have knowledge of when a shipment of gold was being transported by truck and they could go in and attack the truck and steal all the gold. which would be good for any country or time and do what ever he wanted with it.
They could set themselves up as a King in ancient Egypt and rule the world at the time.
They will have all the power and all the money they could ever want.on this world as well as on others.
what stops you from doing this as well?
Are they careful who they pick to time travel? do you have to take psychological tests before you are chosen?
what attributes should a time traveler have in your opinion?
What are some things they look for when they chose someone for a mission?
If they pick a bad seed by mistake and send them time traveling and that person does harm is there anyway they can go after that person? I am curious about all of this.
thankyou in advance for answering my questions.
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Trott
Member posted 11 January 2001 12:54
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Interesting, if you are from the future, you could tell us just exactly what IT is. Since no one will know for sure until probably 2002 according to news reports. The picture that I saw on ABCNEWs.com of what they thing IT is did not seem to impressive.
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TimeMaster 1a
Member posted 11 January 2001 13:45
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TimeTravel_0:
Since you can travel from Worldline to Worldline perhaps you can tell me what a worldline is?
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Fast
Member posted 11 January 2001 14:19
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TT_0,
there was only one question and you answered it.
if one looks over the temperature charts from the past back to when they first started making them,there is a pattern.
every hundred years or so there is a 10 year period of higher and lower than normal temperatures.after these 10 years,the temperature levels out.
I read somewhere we were at the end of those 10 years,so wouldnt that mean that in your time the temperatures would be not as extreme?
also,what exactly is IT?
FastWalker2
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 11 January 2001 15:29
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Buzz,
It's no use, he won't answer your question about Time Travelers ethics. Cause he's got none.
I tried having him to comment on it, yet he hasn't.
After all, he comes from a world where there is capital punishment. The ends justify the means for Time Travelers, as I always been saying.
-J.C.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 11 January 2001 15:31
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Buzz,
It's no use, he won't answer your question about Time Travelers ethics. Cause he's got none.
I tried having him to comment on it, yet he hasn't.
After all, he comes from a world where there is capital punishment. The ends justify the means for Time Travelers, as I always been saying.
-J.C.
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Fast
Member posted 11 January 2001 16:51
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didnt TT_0 say in a previous post that we were looked down on by future generations,
if he is from a "parellel timeline",how would he know this??
perhaps TT_0 really is a fraud?
FastWalker2
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Fast
Member posted 11 January 2001 16:56
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i got an error from the board and tried to resubmit the message,and it popped up in repeat..
FastWalker2
[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]
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Fast
Member posted 11 January 2001 16:57
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another repeat post..
[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 11 January 2001 19:38
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I was considering all the pictures that were submitted of UFO'S on all the different TV programs. It seems that very few people are likely to believe in something that is far more believable then time travel. Not that I am a skeptic of time travel for if I were I would not be trying to provide the method and energy source to enable that and other feats. But most would only beleive in UFO's if one were to land in their back yard and even then most would question their own sanity before proclaiming the obvious. What possible evidence can be produced over the internet to convince even a minute few that the time travel has accured? I would say that collective seeing on a constant basis such that sightings become as routine as eating toast for breakfast before all and few would be convinced. I recall that TT-0 stated that even on his world line most of the population do not believe in time travel. I would say how is a time travelor going to convince a group of people from our own generation that time travel has accured when the same feat in his/or her own time line would take quite an amazing feat. I believe that to even consider the possibility of time travel takes a person of faith. And it takes a person who choses to believe in time travel to truely traverse the necesary intellectial and economical barriers to acomplish that goal. I was considering using the superluminal waveguide where microwaves are forced through an iron bar such that the group velocity is greater then light as resonance to enable the iron bar to less virtually conduct the tachyons from my source by decreasing the density of space-time that seperates the tachyon source from the subluminal energy source and thus correcting the space and time dialation of the superluminal and subluminal entities within the iron antena. This will decrease the density seperating the subluminal energies from the superluminal energies and increase the magnitude of the tavchyon field permiating our iron antena. (please forgive any mispellings I am in quite a hurry). This is all just an extra I believe that the above is not necesary but will serve as maybe a tuner or rectifier. (I hope I am using these terms right). By increasing the density of a parallel propagating e and h field to infinity by generating a double phase field and bringing them in phase within a region; then creating a pressure on the field by running a conducter through the field of infinite density will result in the generation of subluminal negative energy. That is a positronic output. By introducing the superluminal mircrowaves one will conduct the tachyons at a higher probability rate as the fields increase in density to infinity--at which time the conduction of tachyons will increase in probability-which is amplitude-to an infinite amplitude.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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DaViper
unregistered posted 12 January 2001 01:30
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Buzz:
Very good.
It's like the old joke from 2 or three years ago regarding why "Star Trek" will never be a reality.
1. The transporter - All ya gotta do is transport to the Met Museum of Modern Art in NYC, steal all the big $$$ paintings, and retire. Nothing you ever own will ever be safe again once the transporter is invented. This works just as well for TT-O's methods as well.
2. The "Holodeck" will be the last invention of Man. Think about it.
So why wouldn't Time Travel? Human nature. Ever meet anyone who didn't wanna be somewhere/when else?
(Smile).
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huh?
unregistered posted 12 January 2001 12:00
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I have been to the TIME TRAVEL COMMUNITY that time traveler_0 mentioned on the 9th but it has not been up for two days. everytime you go there now it says "Hmmm we can't find that page."
what happened to it?
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 12 January 2001 19:44
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rgrunt,
I'm just curious about something. You seem to be TT_0 biggest supporter. How old are you by way? Cause it sounds as if he's your role model or something .
-J.C.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 12 January 2001 21:24
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TT_O
(Just curious... what do you think of IT (GInger) )
We ain't supposed to know yet. But I do sincerely thank them for adding an element of suspense to my life.
I've spent the last 12 years learning to cope with some of the most virulent, malignant, and chronic uncertainties known to man. When somebody adds one more to the pile I just burst out with giggles.
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Fast
Member posted 12 January 2001 22:37
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rgrunt
your always posting some of the longest and largest collections of rhetoric nonsense i have ever seen in all my life.
your message starts out saying people believe in aliens because it is more believable than time travel...and??
why exactly do people who dont believe time travel is possible come and check out the time travel boards?
why...nevermind.
FastWalker2
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Chick_Magnet
unregistered posted 13 January 2001 12:21
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First off, why would anybody even wnat to kill their grandparents? Just kill yourself if your that depressed. Don't bring your family into it. Or make sure your parents don't fall in love. It's all bullshit.
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Magnetic Chick
unregistered posted 13 January 2001 04:34
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Ooooo.
Good one.
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 21:50
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 9)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 13 January 2001 15:20
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Fast,
the first part of the letter was to the general audience of the forum. The second is to certain persons who I confer with to add to their knowlege conscerning a project that we are involved with. The last part of the letter is part of a much larger technical conscept only those who work closest with me would be able to decipher, understand, or utilze that knowlege. In short I somtimes use this to relay knowlege to my coherts. Even some of them will not fully understand this knowlege until I am able to break it down and expain what I mean. For this is merely to transfer the knowlege while giving away as littly usable technical detail as possible. I will reword the first part of the paragraph:
I simply mean to state that most of the population does not believe in UFO's despite the numerous sightings. And that if the majority will not accept the existance of UFO's the majority will not accept the existance of time travel either.
cheers,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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DaViper
unregistered posted 14 January 2001 04:39
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rgrunt:
Ah, OK. I get your point. I'm not one who has ever seen a UFO and also know that there are a lot of phonies out there claiming to have experiences that are either deluded or just plain lies from the outset.
But...I can't help believing that the existence of extra-terrestrials MUST be so on the sheer logic of the odds alone. I'm not CONVINCED they exist, but I can't see how they could NOT. This is not faith, just deductive reasoning.
Time Travel on the other hand is something I would LOVE to believe as a possibility. Would jump at the chance to endorse if someone somewhere could give me just a glimmer of hope, faith, logic or even reasonable speculation in the mere possibility of. But alas, one burning question remains unanswerd for me. How does one travel to a where/when that actually does not exist in the first place? In other words, how is it ever not eternally here/now?
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 14 January 2001 04:43
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This thread has gotten lame. If it isn't some guy claiming to be from the future, and backing down when he knows he can't answer my questions. It's rgrunt, making no sense at all.
I think the moderators should just end this thread, and put it out of it's misery.
Unless we see some real dialouge going, we're way off topic here.
-Javier C.
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Roel van Houten
Member posted 14 January 2001 10:11
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Hi,
With all due respect mr. TimeTravelActivist, but you to have contributed to the decline of this thread. To be honest, TimeTravel_0 had more useful things to say than you.
I'm not at all convinced he is a timetraveler, but his posts often carried some information that I could think about. Ask him some clear questions instead of vague stories.
Greetings from rainy Amsterdam
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 14 January 2001 17:02
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With all do respect timetravelactivist, I am somewhat relieved that you cannot or choose not to comprehend the information being delivered. Some info is better left to the experts which is why I am not building my own invention. You are not the only one who is aprehensive of the prospects and consequences of the development of time travel. One who I would call a friend is borderline paranoid at the prospect and has threatened recourse any such device is developed. I can honestly say that my original intention was not the development of a time travel device, but an energy source to enable the production and distribution of massive amounts of energy for industrial use and/or consumption. The nature of the device as I developed it revealed quite accidently the possibility of yielding sufficient energy for the manipulation of time itself. It appears that the two limiting factors that are holding back technological progress is the limitation of energy and energy containment. It is like we used to say in aircraft mechanic school, if you give anything enough thrust you can make it fly as is proven by every successful flight of any given harrier fighter jet. If you can produce enough energy I suppose anything is possible--even time travel. I will tell you one thing though, I will not be detered from the development and inplementation of this device--even if it must be developed behind closed doors. I feel that it is time for the world to take serious measures into the energy crisis. We have, so I have heard, about twenty-five years worth of fossil fuels. Here is one possible temperary solution to prolong the consumption of energy. I have heard that the radio-active gas radon is quite plentiful on the lunar surface. Radon happens to be one of the radio active gasses produced by the degradation of Uranium Metal. One option may be to develop NASA drilling teams to go to the moon and search for uranium deposits. If there turns out to be quite a large supply of uranium on the lunar surface that we might be able to develop spacial containers to collect and preserve uranium over the next 25 years while we still have the fuel sources to do so. This might give us a couple of hundred more years of electrical energy on our planet to research for an answer to the energy crisis by continueing research into discovering the ultimate energy source. Since the current form of economy is limiting us by being so dependend on oil and other competitive businesses I thought that maybe a new economy system would be worth considering. If we were to take the economic losses acruid by businesses that fail to succeed on the open market and set up a virtual account and allow that estimated monetary loss to be recirculated back into the economic system in the form of virtual tender in the account of the failed business to spend only on research and development. The failed business can use the cash to develop advanced products for sell. The failed business is then free to spend the profits gained by the newly developed products for personal gain of that business. The bussiness can pay a small tax on the money gained to support the goverment. The oil companies will be satisfied for no inventions can put them out of business on account that any losses acruid by the oil companies as a result of alternate energy sources can be claimed by the oil companies in the form of virtual cash for them to spend on other products such as computers and etc. The more worthy competition the oil companies gain the more money the oil companies gain which is true for everyone. The oil companies will promote the development of advanced tachnologies both on their own and by supporting the competition. Everyones losses will be everyones gains. We can still allow the current money system be usable but can also allow for monetary systems to be kept on massive computer acounts in the form of supercomputers. By having this set up we will use the natural human trait of greed to reinforce our development and in the mean time decrease the crime rate by allowing all persons to have the right to purchase shares of a given business through the stock market. I bet that we if this system will allow every one to gain that we would have no problem getting people to sign petitions to bring this bill before congress. So what does everyone think? Is this a good idea? Don't hold back now?
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DaViper
unregistered posted 14 January 2001 18:33
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Hmmm.
The more I read rgrunt, the more I tend to have respect for him as a person. I started out being very critical of him, but in the end...
He makes no outlandish claims, only speculations and the reasons he makes them. All in all, this seems quite clear to me and not the least bit confusing.
Whether one agrees with him or not is beside the point. That's in individual right. But his pronounements are by his own admission, speculative and as such, come across in an open minded sense. It doesn't appear to me he's trying to "snow" anybody. I can't say the same for all others here.
And his thoughts on energy levels relative to Time Travel seem to be right on topic as far as Paradoxes are concerned. i.e. - Maybe Time Travel is possible IF enough energy can be generated and contained/controlled. But that's the paradox. So far, we have no way to do this. Maybe we never will, maybe we can solve it. But a "Paradox" is only ever really that. Failure to understand a problem that seems unsolvable, or the realization that there never was a problem in the first place.
As I've said before, "Paradox" is an invention of the mind, not something that ever actually occurs in Nature or the Universe. They only SEEM that way to us due to lack of understanding.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 14 January 2001 18:41
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TTA:
May I politely offer that perhaps the reason you think this thread is getting "lame" is that at the moment it is not filled with folks who simply take someone else at their word when they make claims of what they can do.
How is this any different from TT_1 making claims and then sidestepping all attempts to get him him to show verifiable evidence to back them up?
If one requires gullibility in others to be successful in one's arguments, then the arguments can't have much merit in the first place.
The solution to Time travel, (if there is one), requires solid scientific investigation, verification, and publication of said verifiable results for confirmation by others qualified to do so.
As yet, there is little of that going on here.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 14 January 2001 20:28
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oookkaaayyy .
I'm an Activist, or did you forget that. If you boys and girls can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
I post what I think is another side you people are over looking. And from the sounds of your posts, your completely oblivious to perceiving that side.
If it wasn't for me on this thread, you wouldn't have asked TT_0 the questions I did. And for that, he is now backed down.
Why? Who knows? Maybe he realizes any further comments on my part, such as ones he cannot answer will hinder his fantasy role playing.
Don't get me wrong, I like fantasy stuff. But if he is what he says, he will answer my comments and show us proof. I would if I could.
Now let me ask you something, did you think about seeing it that way?
-Javier C.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 14 January 2001 21:56
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TimeTravelActivist
Quote: "I am an activist, or did you forget that........"
Are you sure your don't mean "agitator"?
Quote2: "But if he (TT_O) is what he says, he will answer my coments and show proof. I would if I could."
Right guy, "*I* would if I could." Does the word LAME have any meaning for you? When are *you* going to prove *your* story? Never thats when. But I'm sure that won't stand in the way of your coninuing to run your mouth.
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TimeTravelActivist
Member posted 15 January 2001 01:40
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Man Shadow, you sound like a real @$$-hole in that last post you know. At least the others said their peace with a little respect.
I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an "agitator."
So what would you have had me say? I have often times attempted to speak of my experiences and try to make sense of them. If I could somehow, find some way to prove to people of what I am going through is for real, believe me I would.
Why is it so hard for someone to prove something if he can? Especially more when he claims he's what he is.
Roel van Houten,
What vauge stories are you talking about? Can you point one out to me, please ?
DaViper,
Gullible people? Not in here... you must be mistaken.
-Javier C.
[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 15 January 2001).]
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DaViper
unregistered posted 15 January 2001 04:45
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TTA:
I don't think I accused anyone of being gullible here have I? I've stated what I think that term means, and how it pertains to those who allow others to get away with any argument in an unquestioned manner. I don't believe I've pointed a finger at anyone in particular tho.
Frankly, in my opinion the board is LESS lame when it contains sceptics who keep the conversation going in a speculative manner, rather than when it becomes a forum for any one person to direct the conversation while all others simply nod in agreement.
If a soultion to Time Travel is EVER to be found, it will come from stimulated debate, which fosters creative thought and experimentation, not "preaching to the choir".
This may be fun and all for problems that have already been solved, but Time Travel has not. Not to any degree that satisfies MY scepticism anyway. This is not to say I declare it to be impossible. But I DO think thought in other than the traditional directions (Time Machines, Parallel Universes, etc.) is in order to reach a solution if there is one. The aforementioned are merely old ways of conceptualizing it that have ultimately produced, well, nothing. In the way of any PROOF that is.
I doubt seriously that the answer lies in EITHER of these two approaches. But, I COULD be wrong about that.
Thanks for your response.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 15 January 2001 05:00
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P.S. TTA:
As far as your personal experiences are concerned, I'm not critisizing what you say you experience. You sound like a genuine person to me who is relating what you feel and even the sometimes confusion you feel by having had these experiences. That in itself speaks to your credibility.
Since I have not had the experiences you have, I can't comment either way. It would seem that your experiences suggest that Time Travel is more a spiritual experience than an actual physical one, but even that which can be described as the "spiritual" side of each of us as individuals, remains undefined itself does it not.
Ergo, I cannot dismiss them nor can I accept them out of hand. No critisism intended there. Just ponderance of the fact that to me they are "interesting".
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 15 January 2001 08:52
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Thanks DaViper,
For clearing things up for me, and for others on this board as well (hopefully).
Basically that's what I mainly been trying to get across in my recent posts. That we shouldn't go along with what someone says. I have only been asking the questions, no one has bothered to ask.
And that upset-ted a few people, forgive me folks...
Hence my little sarcasm in that last comment I made to you; "Gullible people? Not in here... you must be mistaken." Get it ?
Nevertheless, it's not my place to try and convince people about my experiences. Cause it's never been about that, it's always been about being critical of Time Travel, and Time Travelers intentions. Some how someone keeps bringing up something about my experiences, and that I can't prove anything, so why am I even talking if I can't prove anything my self, is the point someone's been trying to impose on me.
So then, the topic isn't about my comments of my last post anymore, but of what someone criticized me on. Then everyone gets to talking about it, as if this is what I am trying to convince others about. huuuaggh.
It makes a big mess, it confuses everything. I haven't made any stories, nor have I even spoken of my experiences. Yet, it may sound like I did because that's what everyones talking about. Further more, I would like to see if we can go back before all this confusion started. It was when I posted a few comments for TT_O to respond, say about 4 days ago.
They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don't you think.
Sincerely,
Javier C.
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 15 January 2001 09:06
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[This message has been edited by Enforcer of Time (edited 15 January 2001).]
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 15 January 2001 09:08
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P.S. You might be wondering why the new name. Well I got the idea for this name after playing this cool RPG game. "The Wheel of Time." Just thought I use a new name, as a change of pace.
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For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's preservation.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 15 January 2001 12:04
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In the post that follows, I’ve tried to answer the latest questions directed at me but I am hoping you all may be able to add some insight into something I’ve noticed. In our attempt to communicate here, some of the comments on this board have become increasingly hostile and negative. I see the same type of interaction when I watch news interview programs. The guise of productive interaction and communication is thwarted by illogical verbal attacks and misdirection. I understand why the news does it. They are trying to hold an audience by generating conflict. For a while, I thought that was the goal here too but it appears that anger and conflict is being created on this site to cause genuine harm and pain.
Its hard for me to believe that this is being done on purpose so I have concluded I simply do not understand some hidden element of your collective social interaction. On the other hand, if its being done for no reason, I would understand a little better how people in this time could accomplish so much and yet be so vulnerable to their emotions and fears. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who believed that the only way to sway opinion was through calm, respectful, intelligent conversation.
Weather I’m a time traveler or not, I suppose there are numerous ways to view my “story”. By the nature of the communication medium, I believe it’s impossible to prove therefore it’s impossible to believe. I agree that conversation spurs ideas. If I’m not a time a time traveler, than perhaps the seemingly disjointed statements I make will actually create the idea in one of you that leads to “real” time travel.
(What is a WORLDLINE?)
Individual worldlines represent the limits and paths physical objects take through space-time under the laws of special relativity. They can be shown graphically on an x-y graph with x representing distance in space and y representing passing of time. In time travel talk, worldlines are used as a way to describe and separate the experiences of a time traveler because various laws of special relativity appear to breakdown and can’t be defined on a single worldline. Worldline has also become synonymous with "alternate universe" and / or "time line".
((I see you take things from this world to bring back to your own world. books, computers what have ya. as well as probably the other TT do as well.
Do you pay for those items? or do you just "steal" them?
what do you pay with if you pay?))
I pay for these items with money. Personally, I believe stealing is wrong.
((…could not a TT (time traveler)basically take whatever they wanted from any time?))
There are mass limits to what can be taken back.
((… do you have to take psychological tests before you are chosen? what attributes should a time traveler have in your opinion?))
Yes, there are numerous psychological tests. I was chosen based on my educational background and military service. The training lasted about two years. There is a great deal of physical training to counter the physical effects of distortion. They were also looking for drivers who had a fair amount of self-sufficiency and an ability to function under extreme isolation and confinement.
((What are some things they look for when they chose someone for a mission?))
Depending on the mission, time travelers are usually chosen for a particular mission based on their ability to gain the cooperation of someone related to the goal on the target worldline. In my case, my grandfather was directly involved with the building and programming of the 5100.
((If they pick a bad seed by mistake and send them time traveling and that person does harm is there anyway they can go after that person? I am curious about all of this.))
Interesting question. There is a difference of philosophy between us that should be clarified. Since I believe that all possible outcomes and events are possible, probable and certain, it is impossible to assign “goodness” or “badness” to a person or situation. On some other worldline, I am an insane time traveler causing destruction and death while TTA chases me with his band of devoted followers. However, on this one, I am not. Since both events are certain, their value is neutral.
Therefore, you can only assign goodness and badness to the events and experiences you have direct control over or witness. Only actions are good and bad, not people or things. I suppose if I was a psychotic killer, I could accomplish my mission, avoid capture and still return to my worldline of origin without penalty. There would be no way for them to know what happened. However, I believe that action is wrong and I would be accountable to my God.
((Interesting, if you are from the future, you could tell us just exactly what IT is. Since no one will know for sure until probably 2002 according to news reports. The picture that I saw on ABCNEWs.com of what they thing IT is did not seem to impressive.))
I suppose this question is my own fault. As a time traveler, I am expected to know every winning horse and hot stock as well as the weather in all parts of the world at all times. I was genuinely interested in your opinion of how “IT” was being presented and advertised. Do you feel manipulated? Do you think it’s really a big deal? Do you like the way the news is dealing with it?
((…didnt TT_0 say in a previous post that we were looked down on by future generations, if he is from a "parellel timeline",how would he know this??))
This worldline and my own are almost exactly alike.
((How is this any different from TT_1 making claims and then sidestepping all attempts to get him to show verifiable evidence to back them up?))
Did you mean TT_0 or TT_1?
((They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don't you think.))
How do you think my actions here affect my own worldline?
((P.S. You might be wondering why the new name. Well I got the idea for this name after playing this cool RPG game. "The Wheel of Time." Just thought I use a new name, as a change of pace.))
Is the “The Wheel of Time” one of those “fantasy” role-playing games you mentioned earlier?
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 15 January 2001 16:04
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TT_0,
Ok man, I have to had it to you. Your smart, and know how to please a crowd. But you have to admit that your coming here and saying your a Time Traveler is a bit suspect. I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding back...?
I still believe your buying into people's fascination. Your a good study in communications and science, and know how to handle upsets very well.
(You sure your not some corporate PR guy).?
Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years.
Which is not to say they are, and you just don't know it.
Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society, admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That's the only reason you can ever have an interest in the past.
You know, I don't know why you keep making me look like the bad guy here. After all, what have I done but just ask you some critical questions. And you respond by saying that all future TTA are trying to murder you. I'm not you, I believe in a criminal justice system. I wasn't trained to kill, like you were.
What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don't you have people regulating Time Travel?
You said your self you don't care what happens to your worldline. You don't care about your actions, and what they will affect?
You are a cheater of life... What ever happened to preservering against adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that strikes you as no big deal?
And what's worse, I am the only one on this board who has enough moral sense to see that as wrong. Watch, someone is going to attack me now.
So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?
Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don't you have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?
Truly,
Javier C.
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For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's preservation.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 15 January 2001 20:48
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RE: Ugliness on the board:
TT_O shouldn't an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more up to speed on psychology? There is no big mystery here. It is simple. Some people get off on telling others what to do. Others get sick of listening to it. I'd like to say here that the 'some people' I refer to, know who they are. But I'm not sure they do.
Here is a theory for you. "This whole board is a communist plot to send thinking people home doubting their sanity". (And this where you say "you don't know the half of it pal ! ")
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 25, 2002 21:58
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There is a problem with the second half of page 9.
It won't post for some reason. So I posted the first half. I sent the second half to Olav to see if he can figuere out what is causing it not to be posted. When we identify the problem it will be placed in this little area here.
-Ok found out what the problem was. There was a spot where John was quoting Javier and he had arrows there I replaced the arrows with 5 stars.
The arrows was the problem so they were deleted and the 5 stars were added in their place.
Fast
Member posted 15 January 2001 21:00
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Art Bell Returns to Radio:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/artreturns.html
FastWalker2
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WanderingSoul
Member posted 15 January 2001 21:25
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Although I do not post here often, I do enjoy the thoughtful discussions and
mind challenging questions that arise...
The spiritual aspect of TT_O 's discussions and presentations have been
especially interesting, given my interests.
*smiling* I chuckled at the perception of time and the knowing not with
God... some concepts are indeed timeless.
Everyone needs a devil's advocate...someone to muddy up the waters...it
creates an atmosphere where belief is supported by the interaction of faith,
a sense of knowing, and the physical reality we each experience daily...
If we are not challenged and nudged to think beyond accepted thought, then
we can not create opportunities to broaden our scope of thinking... thus
experiencing.
Perhaps we do not all agree on the process by which the challenge and nudge
are laid down...yet there is inherent value in all things.
Be safe and dream sweetly.
WS
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Crono
Member posted 15 January 2001 23:24
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Hey Enforcer, we have some good time travel games here in the present. Ever
played Chrono Trigger? That's where I got my name from.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 16 January 2001 03:13
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Alright!
For me, this is all beginning to work now in the manner I hope everyone has
intended it to. Yup. It's gettin' "curiouser and curiouser".
Enforcer: (cool name. Choose what you like, I'll run with that. And I think
I'll stay DaViper for a while.)
You are right. Once everyone comes around to admitting that none of us has
the answer, we can cut to the chase of REALLY seeing if we can find one. And
I know we ALL would like to find one or we wouldn't be here in the first
place would we.
TT_0:
I stand corrected. I mis-typed your handle and it came out TT_1 by mistake.
I appologize for that.
I also stand by my assesment of what I see you doing. No offense. I've
checked your web site and will say that I think the SITE is well done and
interesting. But I cannot surrender my opinion that it is Fiction as you
have always intended it to be. And not that bad at that.
I see you as a person who is utilizing fiction to express your opinions as
to how the problem of time Travel COULD be solved. OK. As I've said before,
this board itself is presented as "fiction" in the first place, as it states
right on the Home Page. But... does THAT stop us from contemplating the
possibilities that we ALL would like to explore. On the contrary! It
stimulates them. The Web Authors here have accomplished their goal in
getting the topic off the ground for discussion. It's a great site. I
personally have been visiting it for over two years now under various
handles.
(I'll stick with "DaViper" for now.)
So...
Since (to me anyway), the topics of "Time Machines" and "Parallel Universes"
have been beaten to death, how about exploring other possibilities as to a
possible solution, since these two ALWAYS lead to SOME form of Paradox which
I hope we all agree CAN'T be so by the very nature of the simple fact that
the Universe contains NO Paradoxes.
In short, I think there is something awry with ALL of our thinking,
including MINE. But I can't put my finger on just what it is.
Peace to all.
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 16 January 2001 05:08
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Just some commentary...
WanderingSoul,
I don't know where you learned it, but it sure is affective.
Crono,
Thanks for reminding me, I gotta find the EMU file for it.
Fast,
Do you know where I can find out what station he will be airing on in my
location?
TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ???
so I wouldn't get excuses that they weren't any.
And Shadow, I don't know what to think about you. You sound awfully cold.
Good night,
Javier C.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 16 January 2001 10:43
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(( I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your
motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding
back...?))
Rest assured there is nothing I have planned in my "hidden agenda" that will
make anyone's life any worse than it already might be.
((Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society,
admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That's the only
reason you can ever have an interest in the past.))
I plan to leave soon. There is nothing I can do here that will affect my
home. My goals are based on the love I have for my family. Actually, my
inertest in the past is a result of going through piles of half burned books
and magazines left over from a war started by people you share this planet
with right now. On that note, perhaps its more interesting to consider what
I won't be doing to try and stop that war.
((I wasn't trained to kill, like you were.))
***** "Well it's a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might
have been my fate as well." *****
I could have sworn you mentioned you were in
the army?
((What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which
one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don't you have
people regulating Time Travel?))
How many Gods are there? I believe in just one. What are your suggestions
for regulating time? Perhaps a list of your "time rights" would be something
to spark conversation on the board.
((You said your self you don't care what happens to your worldline. You
don't care about your actions, and what they will affect?))
I'm not sure I ever said I didn't care about my own worldline. If you could
find and quote that, I would appreciate it.
((You are a cheater of life... What ever happened to preservering against
adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it
there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that
strikes you as no big deal?))
I think I understand what you're asking. I'm just guessing that "cheater of
life" is not a compliment. I can't think of a reason why my actions would be
immoral and someone else's would not. You suggest I'm capable of changing
lives. I suggest that I'm no more capable of that than you are. I'm just not
so sure you recognize your own potential. You don't need a time machine to
save or destroy people. If there was another person doing the exact same
things I was but they didn't have a time machine, would they be putting
billions of lives at stake and suffer your judgment?
((So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that
you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?))
Yes, I believe in wrong and right. I judge my actions based on God's law. Is
it wrong for me to murder? Yes it is. Is it wrong for me to teach someone
how to defend themselves and they commit murder? No, I am not their keeper.
Since I am leaving, I will be incapable of causing any harm. But, what
damage will you do with anything I have said?
((Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don't you
have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?))
Yes, we have games.
((TT_O shouldn't an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more
up to speed on psychology?))
I apologize. I am learning all the time and I wish I were smarter too. You
must remember that reading about a society is one thing and being exposed to
it is another.
((TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ???
so I wouldn't get excuses that they weren't any.))
I was not trying to offer excuses. Please forgive my ignorance. I was
unaware that question marks were optional.
IP: Logged
pamela
Member posted 16 January 2001 13:20
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----
Well, it looks like if anybody has any questions to ask TTO...now would be
the time to do so.
I have learned so much over the past few months. with the added info I have
gained I have went back and reread books such as hyperspace and string
theories and blackhole books I had and things are really starting to fall
into place with the additional info I have gathered. pieces are being fit
together to create a beautiful picture of the nature of time. it is funny as
I am reading some of the old info I had and now the new I will find myself
saying "oh...now I understand..."
I am very busy studying at this time.
and yes,Daviper, always searching for the truth in new theories and
beyond.as I have always said "science fiction of today may become tomorrows
science fact."
I am sorry that you did not respond to my e-mail for an opportunity to chat
with TTO,Mr. Schasteen and time 02112.perhaps you were busy. I tried to get
a hold of you both yesterday.
I have had wonderful chats with TTO.
last night djayr42(Joe)and I talked to him for I believe over three hours.
He is a wonderful person and I am sorry you may never get to know that.
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 16 January 2001).]
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Prophet
Junior Member posted 16 January 2001 15:03
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Well, I must say this thread has piqued my interest. I have a few questions
for TT_0:
First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from?
Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?
Second, do you not like your "new" Constitution?
Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?
Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon,
how soon will this be?
Can you give a specific day? Or week?
I have many questions for you and would like to be able to know how much
time I have left to ask them of you.
rgrunt:
Could you please space out your posts to make it easier to read - it is very
difficult to read a post that is in one large block of words compared to one
that has each thought, or idea, seperated by spaces.
Prophet
Edited for clarification
[This message has been edited by Prophet (edited 16 January 2001).]
IP: Logged
Enforcer of Time
Member posted 16 January 2001 19:03
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TT_0,
I don't think you got my point... But your leaving, and I'm tired of telling
you. So I just don't care anymore.
Yes, I was in the Army... But I was injured, I didn't finish going through
BCT. In addition, I guess you can say I had a change in perspective about
life, after my accident.
I don't wish to comment any further about that...
And as for you saying you didn't care about your worldline, here it is, you
saying it.
Excerpt from: Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 2)
-------------------------
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face
that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care
since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the
information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the
process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they
are playing with at this "time".)
Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil
of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not
aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first
answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don't care
what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these
documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not
expect people to believe them.
---------------------
Enjoy,
Javier C.
------------------
"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's
preservation."
IP: Logged
Shadow
unregistered posted 16 January 2001 19:47
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To TT_O
Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you
leave?
If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that
would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?
Recomended movies:
Arthur C. Clarks' 2001
WaterWorld (Kevin Kosner)
Dances With Wolves
Chrimson Tide
Backdraft
Forest Gump
Little Big Man
There are a lot of good movies of substance. Good movies like good books are
more than a mere passtime. I've got one heck of a book collection that I
probably won't need come 2036. Any suggestions on where to drop it off? (It
weighs about 3000 pounds.)
Watch out for the time cops on your way out.
IP: Logged
WanderingSoul
Member posted 16 January 2001 21:19
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*chuckling*
Enforcer:
I shall take it that was NOT a typo...
*still chuckling*
Be safe and dream sweetly.
WS
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 16 January 2001 21:50
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What's so funny WanderingSoul? If I didn't know better, I could swear your
laughing at me.
------------------
"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's
preservation."
IP: Logged
Curious
unregistered posted 17 January 2001 12:37
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To TT_0, You have made a difference. You have at least opened some people's
eyes to the possibility of time travel and what is going on around them. But
like I said earlier, you will leave, and the memory will fade. Some peoples
eyes will not stay open very long. Other people though, will grasp the
spark, hopefully making a difference. I think this has been a positive
experiance. I hope it has been for you too.
Safe trip home, and God speed. Maybe we will talk again some time ;~)
Curious
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P.Light
unregistered posted 17 January 2001 02:03
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To T-T-A,
Let me just say this.
Even before you came here criticizing this foumn and T-T-O , i was here from
the beginning, asking the same questions. I have been watching this forumn
and watching the same questions being repeated over and over to T-T-O.....
He doesn't answer your questions because there is no reason to. Read back
and you'll see what i mean. He/She has told us before to read his previous
posts for answers and yes, there they are.
To R-Grunt, Could you please, in future ,write your answers in paragraphs?
Much easier to read, I might say. Thank you.
.....P.Light.....
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 17 January 2001 03:45
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P.Light,
Well excuse me... I just saw the post the first day I got back to this
board, and jumped right in to respond. As I'm sure that's what most people
in this forum do anyway's, am I right?
I read all his past post though. And that's why I cut and paste something
that he said. The man said to quote him, or did you not read that part...?
He still hasn't replied.
You seem to know him pretty well, are you his friend or something? I tell
you, a man can't get a decent unbiased review in this board now a days.
Well maybe from DaViper, he doesn't sound like he's on anyones side.
Good night,
-Javier C.
P.S. I'll bet you the next topic after my post will be on sides. Care to
place any bets who will take a crack at it?
------------------
"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's
preservation."
IP: Logged
TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 17 January 2001 11:29
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In the future, sociologists spend a great of time discussing the collective
mentality before the war that led to the demise of "Homo Materia". Many of
them point to an experiment that was done in the 1970's or 1980's. The
experiment isolated various sizes of rat populations in varying cage sizes
with varying food and cleaning schedules. It was discovered that no matter
what, there was a certain ratio of rats to space that once overtaken by
population would always lead to aggressive and destructive behavior in the
rats until enough of them had died or been killed to get back under the
ratio. This was true even when the rats that were given plenty of food and
had their cage cleaned every day.
Besides the occasional school or office shooting and violent video game, I
can't help but think about that experiment every time I see someone stranded
on the highway or walking on the side of the road carrying an empty gas can.
I ask my parents why we don't stop and help and they tell me they are afraid
of being attacked and of the possible consequences of helping someone they
don't know. I would respond by pointing out that it's our duty to help
someone, not just because it's the right thing to do, but because we can
never know that person's true worth and the risk of losing then is too
great. I didn't fully understand their stubbornness until I saw a news story
about a doctor who was sued for applying emergency first aid to an accident
victim who died. I believe your society is biologically geared for
self-destruction. However, I feel strongly that does not excuse me from my
responsibilities as a temporary member of this community.
Although TTA is a bit quirky and eccentric, he does belong to us. He's this
community's quirky and eccentric guy and although he can be aggravating, I
can't help but feel protective of him. As I'm sure most of us believe, under
all of his postings, he has some interesting things to say. When I first
read one of his postings, I first shake my head and then I begin to question
my own understanding of not only the English language but of the real
meaning of the odd things he brings up. If it's done on purpose, it's quite
effective. I am often forced to go back through the dictionary or grammar
handbook just to make sure there's not some obscure punctuation or grammar
rule I was unaware of.
As an example, when I read his mission statement, I do think the effect of
not writing a complete sentence before the period is dramatic but I am
forced to examine the word "it's" and wonder if it represents the
contraction for "it is" or if it means the possessive of the understood
subject from the first part.
Please understand, I do not point this out to cause harm. People are often
first judged by the way they write and speak. I can't help but think a great
deal of anger is a result of frustration to make ourselves understood.
Throughout our lives, a real understanding of how to communicate would help
anyone express themselves better. As I find myself double checking how to
use the English language I only recommend that TTA do the same. I am quite
anxious to his ideas or set of rules on the use of time travel.
IP: Logged
Trott
Member posted 17 January 2001 11:46
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----
Although, I do not wish to take sides in this argument. TTA if you re-read
what you quoted, you will notice something.
---------------
(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face
that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care
since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the
information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the
process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they
are playing with at this "time".)
Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil
of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not
aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first
answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don't care
what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these
documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not
expect people to believe them.
--------------------
TT_0 says that the obvious first answer to the question is that he must not
care for what happens on any worldline except for his own. But notice
immediately after that sentence he says that is not however the case. That
the true answer is that he just wanted people to consider the possibility
and that is why he posted the material. He never says that the only time
line he cared to protect was his own.
IP: Logged
djayr42
Member posted 17 January 2001 20:14
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I beleive the experiment was called "Hell's Kitchen."
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Fast
Member posted 17 January 2001 20:24
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i dont understand why all these people are like 'TT_0 touched me and opened
my eyes to the world'..
and TT_0 seems to change his opinion of the people of "this" time every
other post of his.
first he despised us,now he admires us for shaping the things to come??
FastWalker2
PS No tt_0 no questions were directed toward you in the making of this post.
IP: Logged
borgus
unregistered posted 17 January 2001 21:09
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TimeTravel_0..
It has been fascinating to read your insights on the social flaws during
this time period. Since you are not a part of this society (or at least new
to it) it is more obvious for you than many of us.
Your observations strike a deep meaning with me, because I've spent the last
4 years writing a science fiction audio drama about the greed of humanity
around the year 2000.
What disturbs me is that, yes, there are many who understand these problems
of greed. Most of us know it exists, but cannot attribute the source. Some
think greed is the necessary thread which tightly holds our economy
together. There are the many that just accept greed as the normal way of
life, even though they know there is something wrong about it. Action is
never taken to fix the mindset of what money is really for.
There are always those who enjoy cheating, weaseling, and playing tricks to
gain false respect. Those people thrive on knowing how to get ahead. As long
as they win their steadfast race to personal satisfaction, they will always
influence others. It doesn't matter how many of us become outward,
collective, and self-less... the greedy individuals will always rise.
So TimeTravel_0, having lived through the self destruction of the human
race, what sort of future do you imagine after 2036? Will humans colonolize
and expand through the solar system?
Or will we be forever bound to our inward existance, measuring the past,
fearfull of the future.
IP: Logged
WanderingSoul
Member posted 17 January 2001 21:41
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Enforcer..
With, I hope... *smiling*
Life is short and battles need to be chosen with care...
*little shrug* There are few concepts in my life I expend emotional energy
on... The important ones gain my full attention. I simply believe that
everyone has something to contribute...even if we do not like it...agree
with it... or even understand it.
A personal value I hold.
Anything that challenges me to think beyond what I thought yesterday..opens
doors for me now and tomorrow *little smile*
*little shrug*
Life is good *grin*
Be safe and dream sweetly.
WS
IP: Logged
Enforcer of Time
Member posted 17 January 2001 22:10
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----
That's very nice of you Trott, answering for TT_0. But I'm sure he's a big
boy now and can answer his own post, thank you very much.
TT_0,
By being the eccentric & aggravating guy in this community, do you mean the
guy that brings up things that are in opposition to the common ideals of
this board? Then sure, if you wish to define my actions like that, I really
don't care.
As long as I am aware that what I am doing is looking at things from both
sides, and advocating freedom. What people say won't make me give in to your
followers.
You can tell which ones they are by reading their posts. All this praise,
like if you were some God.
And further more, it's a good thing you don't know what my voice sounds
like. Or you'd criticize the way I pronounce things too, because I have a
slight accent.
After all, I am fluent in Spanish and English. Spanish is my native tongue
though. And it's pretty hard to lose it, look at Ricky Martin, and Antonio
Banderas.
See Me here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/pic8x.jpg
WanderingSoul,
There's not much we know about you. You made a little comment about your
life, but that's just it. No real insight as to who is giving this wisdom
(since your so good at giving it). Don't you think we must first know who is
giving it? And how has it helped you? You just preach, even church preaches
give examples about their lives and others how it's helped them. Think about
doing that, might make your posting seem less creepy (at times) and make
your words more effective.
Gotta Go,
Javier C.
------------------
"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's
preservation."
IP: Logged
[ December 31, 2002, 19:37: Message edited by: Pamela ]
--------------------
Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 28, 2002 06:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 10)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
WanderingSoul
Member posted 18 January 2001 12:10
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Enforcer...
Preach?
Nahhh I'll read. Observe. ... and draw my own conclusions based upon what is presented here. Like many others, I gleen alot out of everyone's postings.
I am a nobody *little smile* If others gleen something from my sporadic postings...wonderful...if not...not.
Be safe and dream sweetly.
WS
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Shadow
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 12:11
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To borgus
Greed is a compass that points to The Conspiracy. It is a conspiracy of secrecy to hide/deny the fact that Homosapiens are as a species SELF-PREDITORY. Period.
Oops! I just spilled the beans. Ah, what the heck we all know the truth, we are just a little shy in admitting it.
IP: Logged
borgus
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 02:19
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To Shadow...
Other species kill each other too Its all about protecting DNA lines.
To TimeTravel_0...
Can you record a quick voice message for us before you leave?
IP: Logged
DaViper
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 04:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah TT_0, OK.
I'll go ahead and run with the way you want to tell it.
You are obviously a thinker on social issues, a contemplator of paradox, and hypothesizer of possibilities.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.
So, no critisism intended here but...
(and you know I see your scenario as pure fiction on your part), could you give us your thoughts on how us "less enlightened" ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?
I mean, EVERYBODY hates a tease right?
:-)
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Trott
Member posted 18 January 2001 10:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. TT_0,
Let us assume you are a time traveller. I do not see any viable way for you to return to your own time line then. I say this because that you mentioned the difficulty with time travel in the sense of divergences. You said that you travelled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable. Now if I understand your plan, you say you will once again travel back to 1975 before you arrived and then go forward as to avoid going into the future of our time line, which by your presence here would be an alternate future from your own. But what I would ask is, if you plan to go back to 1975 from 2000, you should incur a certain non-zero percent divergence just as you did going from 2036 to 1975. I would surmize that it is impossible or technologically improbable for you to go back to the exact world line you departed from then. Even if you are able to travel back with a 0% divergence, which by your previous words would be mythological, what would ensure you that the future you travelled into was exactly the world line you left. Since there are an infinite number of possible world lines departing from 1975 into the future. I suppose the key point of this argument is that any trip through time with your technology would result in a non-zero divergence, and in order for you to arrive in your own world line you must create a 0% divergent trip. This is amusing in the sense that the harder you try to get to your own world line the more divergences you incur and hence the furthur away you get. I believe I see the birth of a new temporal paradox.
IP: Logged
rgrunt
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 10:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be glad to double space and set up my
postings in paragraph form. Anything to make
my postings easier to understand.
cheers from rainy california,he he.
Edwin G. Schasteen
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BUZZ
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 11:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH great. good going guys! now we will have a whole page of just rgrunt's postings,double and tripled spaced with seperating topics and paragraphs and chapter numbers! HAHA
just joking,Rgrunt your postings are very interesting.
TTO-thankyou for answering my questions.
IP: Logged
Draco2
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 15:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Everyone!! While I've been following this thread from the beginning and even conveyed a few thoughts on the topic matter as it evolved, I have been, for the most part, been following the topic discussion to TTO's answers to everyones questions. I have come to a couple conclusions. First of all I want to commend TTO for provoking much thoughtfull and insightfull discussion on, even the probability much less the possability that what he says is true. And I would like to commend those that treated this topic discussion with respectful scrutiny and thought provoking questions for TTO. I understand that for TTO to reveal himself as a time traveler in this timeline on this board was a matter of great risk on his part and I commend him for it!! Who are we to say he's not for real!!! Being a Druid MAGI I've also conveyed thoughts and realities that have fallen upon great scrutiny and rightly so. It is when we stop asking how and why that we are truely doomed as a race!! We have to open our minds and get peoples heads out of the sands of disbelief and ignorance, only then can we truely be ready for the next level, as a race. Individually, some are already at the doorway of the next level!! As a race there's too much hate and greed for this to happen on an evolutionary scale for a while. That is a sad state of affairs!!
As far as I'm concerned, GODSPEED TTO!!!!
Respectably,
Draco the Druid
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 18 January 2001 15:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was funny,
Now that I will be double spacing my posts
this string should be twenty pages long
within the next couple of days making
everyone think that there is something
really interesting being discussed on this
string. Just one question, once this string
of pages is long enough to be a book who
reserves the right to become a million-uhh-I
mean author of the book?
Ha Ha!
Edwin G. Schasteen
IP: Logged
Fast
Member posted 18 January 2001 17:56
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rgrunt,
the double spacing is not needed..just add a space inbetween ideas..
Draco,
your a druid?a friend of mine is Wiccan...their like ancient hippies
FastWalker2
"May you be Enlightened"--....
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markog1001
Junior Member posted 18 January 2001 21:53
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anyone know whats the best time travel device out there and where i can purchase one? also anyone know where i can locate any interdimensional portals in alabama, i live in birmingham, alabama.. .... mg
IP: Logged
rgrunt
unregistered posted 19 January 2001 15:33
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Draco2,
that is amazing. I read a book entitled "Druids" by an Irish female author, I don't remember the name. The story was set back in roman times and was based on the early life of a chief druid by the name Ainvar...meaning 'one who travels far'.
The events in the story were centered around the conflict between celts and the romans. The story finishes off with the defeat of the celts by the romans in one fantastic battle.
I was going to ask if you have ever heard of the story of Ainvar in the order? Is this a true story based on history or is it just a fictional book?
inquistively,
Edwin G. Schasteen
p.s. Is this ok for double spacing?
IP: Logged
Prophet
Junior Member posted 19 January 2001 15:47
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rgrunt:
Perfect
IP: Logged
rgrunt
unregistered posted 19 January 2001 19:33
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prophet:
Thanks.
IP: Logged
Draco2
unregistered posted 19 January 2001 21:28
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Hey RGUNT!! Actually I believe I may have read the same book you did.. I don't have the book anymore and it's been along time since I read it... The final battle resulted in the Celtic Cheiftain being put in chains and taken back to rome, where the drug him through the streets and stuck what was left of him on a pig pole... As far as a Druid from the Order named Ainvar it sounds familar but the true spellings of names was fully contingent on what language you are using....
~ Draco
IP: Logged
rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 20 January 2001 16:32
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Draco2,
Yes that is the same book I read. I thought it was a pretty good book. What about you?
inquisitively,
Edwin G. Schasteen
IP: Logged
Draco2
unregistered posted 20 January 2001 17:18
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The Book touched My Life in a way that only Great Books can!!!!!!!!
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!
~Draco
IP: Logged
Enforcer of Time
Member posted 21 January 2001 07:00
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So the topic's moved to Witchery now? What's this board coming to ...?
IP: Logged
observer
unregistered posted 21 January 2001 11:22
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whats wrong enforcer of time,
bored without timetraveler_0? are you going to advocate against this now?
IP: Logged
Enforcer of Time
Member posted 21 January 2001 17:38
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You must be a TT_0 follower .
Hey, whatever your religious beliefs are is none of my business. I can care less what you are, as long as you don't mess with the Time Line.
I may not believe in the same thing as you do, I may even think it's wrong. But that is not an important thing in my life to fight about right now.
Well maybe if it was a cult, that would be different. But you people are harmless , so I have no problem with you.
Just don't mess with the Time Line, and I'm happy.
Sincerely yours,
Javier C.
------------------
"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's preservation."
IP: Logged
Fast
Member posted 21 January 2001 19:24
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EoF,
i dont see why you campaign on about affecting the time line,when you know that anybody in their right mind would do so.
in a multiverse of infinite possibilities,
if someone feels like they should have been a bus driver instead of an astrophysicist,then by all means quit your job and buy a bus...
im not a TT_0 fan,nor a soothsayer,but theres no use telling the people here about such nonsense...i heard this in some movie a while back: "your destiny is yours.you cant change it,but you can rise up to meet it."
some words of wisdom from an eccentric soul.
FastWalker2
IP: Logged
P.Light
unregistered posted 22 January 2001 12:48
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Javier.C,
Does it look like i just jumped right in and answered?
i barely have enough time these days!
Followers?! "As if he was some God?"
I gotta tell you Javier.C, you sound as if you want the entire world to know how much you hate time travel and anyone from there.
Well, guess what. Your a time traveller too.
Think about it.
Just because someone comes from a few years in front doesn't mean you have to slam them into oblivion. What if i was a T.traveller and i came from 3 seconds into the future?
What then? Would you still "Fight for its preservation?" then?
These days,you dont know what to believe anymore. If he is from 2036 and there is a war coming , Im sorry but you'll be eating your words. On the other side, if T-T-O is full of it and is only here to promote this forum's hits well then i stand corrected.
T-T-O is not my friend, nor does he wish to be. Weve never seen each other and probably never will. Anyway, with the information he has given us, i guess the damage has already been done for all of us wouldn't you agree??
I take in oppinions, equations, theories and any information regarding any subject and formulate my own thoughts on the given subject. I dont think he is a God for giving this information, heck, he could be an employee of the U.S government here to find out what the population thinks of T.T! We could all be test subjects. Who's to say we are not?
If time travel is possible ten million years from now, it will still be possible. Who is to say that humans are not visiting this exact time? You can't stop time travel, it is inevitable.
----------------
OPEN YOUR MIND
P.Light
IP: Logged
Enforcer of Time
Member posted 22 January 2001 01:03
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Fast,
Perhaps somewhere deep in that eccentric soul of yours, you could perhaps muster up a little compassion to understand that there are still some people in this world who want to help and protect us.
If someone where to break into your home in the middle of the night, who would you want to come in to help you?
If you see someone in dying need of medical attention, wouldn't you feel obligated to help, and if you did who would you call?
Problems like these will always exist in any universe. I agree with you on that?
But is it really so wrong with wanting to stop criminals from violating our rights?
We have Cops out there doing their hardest making sure the streets are safe for you and me. We have EMT's ready to be dispatched to save your life if you broke your neck or fallen off a tree or something.
Crime is everywhere, and will always be there. So are we to just accept it and turn our backs on it?
That's so easy to do. Yet there are some people in this society that would rather not have to live through a world like this.
And that's where I believe that the same measures to protect people, should also be implemented to Time Travel. If you violate someone, you must pay. Simple as that.
Did I make my self clear Fastwalker 2, or am I to apologize to you too for having morals, like I did to TT_0?
Truly,
Javier C.
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"For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it's preservation."
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Enforcer of Time
Member posted 22 January 2001 01:13
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Open your mind, huh? Sounds more like you'd let the bigger boys pick on you and have their way because there's nothing to be done.
I don't want to say what you sound like to me.
Because it's all pretty obvious, isn't it?
I gotta go, I have a load of laundry to do.
-J.C.
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 22 January 2001 15:34
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My conversation with Draco was strictly out of my admiration for ancient european history.
I am a christian and therefore do not agree with the ways of the accult and do believe that any religion that is against christ is not from God but from the devil.
I do not mean to insult anyone with this but it is my belief and I hold them also to be true. One day the lord will return and those who have believed on the name of Jesus and who have called upon Jesus to be saved shall be transfigured into an infinite immortal body. At that time all the things that we were involved in here that did not pertain to god will be meaningless.
For at that time time travel and our discussions here will be obsolete to us. God is the one who created the universe and he is the one that will destroy and recreate it again. When we stand before the judgement seat of christ for those who have accepted christ will be judged on there spiritual work. They will be given payment for the work they did for God. That means that if you do your day to day job to the best of your ability to please God and not just for personal gain: in addition to recieving your salary and raises here on earth you will also be payed by god when youre works are being evaluated at the judgement seat of Christ.
That is why I bring religion into this because I credit Jesus for all I have. He is given the glory for any success of mine.
God bless,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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Prophet
Junior Member posted 22 January 2001 16:44
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Amen brother!
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Time02112
Member posted 22 January 2001 21:36
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TT_0 Please read this, ang provide us with your comments...
(How many of the others here, have read this yet?)
(POLL) say AYE if you have, NAY if not,
"Not Yet" but plan to do so latter.
Time Travel Research Center : Interview with Dr. David Anderson@Frankfurt, Germany http://www.time-travel.com/timetech.htm
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DrMises
Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 01:45
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Aye, but only recently!
(caught your post in another thread)
-Theo
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DaViper
unregistered posted 23 January 2001 02:15
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Aye.
And been to his site as long ago as two and a half years.
Or was it only yesterday? :-)
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Paul
Member posted 23 January 2001 11:17
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MY BOOK!
I didn't think a topic about time-travel paradoxes I started would provoke so many replies! I wrote a book about my interest in time which is titled "Hope to time-travel". For those interested I'm willing to e-mail softcopies for free. Just email:paulmartincurran@yahoo.com (requesting a copy). I advertised my book in the Time Travel Institute Discussion Forum along with other places. I'd be grateful if you could send feedback, but you don't have to.
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Paul Curran
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Prophet
Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 15:02
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DrMises:
Is your name in honor of Ludwig von Mises?
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DrMises
Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 18:40
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Prophet,
Perceptive, but not really.
Dr. Gustav Fechner (1801-1887).
He was a scientist and precursor to experimental psychology who had a difficult time settling an internal conflict between his psychophysical research and his conflicting viewpoints.
To alleviate this strife, he published a series of scathing articles under the pen name "Dr. Mises."
It felt appropriate, for slightly different reasons. Thanks for asking!
-Theo
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1984-
unregistered posted 23 January 2001 19:30
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John,
Iam worried about you let me know you are ok.
-psalm 139:7-10
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Fast
Member posted 23 January 2001 22:07
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Paul...
i dont think your first post provoked this discussion..it was TT_0's claims of time travel...
FastWalker2
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DaViper
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 03:02
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There is really only one thing I don't understand the "Theory" of. (Relative to the topic of this board that is.) Or why it is even a Theory at all.
That is of "Parallel Universes" or "Alternative Timelines". It remains a Paradox for me.
Someone correct me where I'm wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are "created" by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.
What events? For instance...
I prevent Lee Harvey Oswald from assassinating JFK? OK. This one is easy to follow. But...
What "authority" or controlling force determines just what "events" qualify for the creation of a new timeline or universe?
God? Is this then just another Religious theory?
Or perhaps ALL events create new timelines and universes. Like the collision of two snowflakes during a snowstorm. How about the collision of the outer molecules of the snowflake with the molecules of the atmosphere? Each collision as it falls? Each snowflake? Each storm? Each molecule? WOW!
There must be a lotta Timelines out there and alternative Universes huh. Infinitely so even.
If infinite, then why am I possesed with the gift of individual thought, free will and the choice to make my own descisions since nothing I think matters anyway in view of all the possibilities that are all true anyway. Given these infinite timelines.
Hmmm.
This seems a bit foolish to me but I can't DIS-prove it. But then in science, dis-proving something, should be easy. Except a negative which is a folly in logic.
It would seem to me that "infinite" universes and timelines is totally contrary to the principle of Occam's razor. But then Occam's razor is not an axiom, merely a postulate. Although it has worked really well so far.
Actually, in science, "Multiverse" theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn't mean it is so.
Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren't for the fact that it simply isn't true.
Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it "explains" some things. Lot's of things explain "some" things. Most of them are NOT true.
So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it's existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?
Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it's considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove "Frame Dragging" which IS an experiment under way.
But "Multiverse"? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?
Thank you.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 03:03
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There is really only one thing I don't understand the "Theory" of. (Relative to the topic of this board that is.) Or why it is even a Theory at all.
That is of "Parallel Universes" or "Alternative Timelines". It remains a Paradox for me.
Someone correct me where I'm wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are "created" by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.
What events? For instance...
I prevent Lee Harvey Oswald from assassinating JFK? OK. This one is easy to follow. But...
What "authority" or controlling force determines just what "events" qualify for the creation of a new timeline or universe?
God? Is this then just another Religious theory?
Or perhaps ALL events create new timelines and universes. Like the collision of two snowflakes during a snowstorm. How about the collision of the outer molecules of the snowflake with the molecules of the atmosphere? Each collision as it falls? Each snowflake? Each storm? Each molecule? WOW!
There must be a lotta Timelines out there and alternative Universes huh. Infinitely so even.
If infinite, then why am I possesed with the gift of individual thought, free will and the choice to make my own descisions since nothing I think matters anyway in view of all the possibilities that are all true anyway. Given these infinite timelines.
Hmmm.
This seems a bit foolish to me but I can't DIS-prove it. But then in science, dis-proving something, should be easy. Except a negative which is a folly in logic.
It would seem to me that "infinite" universes and timelines is totally contrary to the principle of Occam's razor. But then Occam's razor is not an axiom, merely a postulate. Although it has worked really well so far.
Actually, in science, "Multiverse" theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn't mean it is so.
Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren't for the fact that it simply isn't true.
Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it "explains" some things. Lot's of things explain "some" things. Most of them are NOT true.
So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it's existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?
Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it's considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove "Frame Dragging" which IS an experiment under way.
But "Multiverse"? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?
Thank you.
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 10:00
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Dear Everyone,
I was thinking yesterday and came up with an addition to a conscept I stumbled into last week while thinking.
I was reading a book on astronomy that states that the universe is expanding. Now as the unverse expands the temperature of the universe decreases. The author that wrote the book stated that scientist now believe that micro seconds after the big bang there was one super force composed of strong force, weak force, and electromagnetic force. Gravity was seperate from these forces at that time as it is today...so they say. As the universe expanded and cooled this super force broke up into three seperate forces; strong, weak, and electromagnetic. This is what I propose. I believe that space is confined to a fixed shpere of a fixed size and more space is added so that the pressure of the space begins to build up and the density of space begins to increase. One would normally think that compressing space would result in an increase in the temperature of space as a result of the compression of energy that is confined to that region of space. However I believe the opposite is true. To compress space by increasing the volume of space is to confine the energy within that region of compressed space to a greater volume of space. This results in a decrease to the density of energy. If one doubles the volume of space that a quantity of energy occupies, the energy density of that energy will be equall to the inverted square of the density of the new density of space. (S=1/e^2) where s=new density of space, and e=the density of energy occupying that space. Further more, I believe that energy is also expanding at the same rate as space. One might say, if this is so then why does the energy density of space decrease as space expands? If the increase of energy is proportionate to the increase of space, then shouldn't the space-time temperature remain constant? The answer, quite counterintuitively, is no. The reason is that even if a quantity of space doubles and the energy in that space also doubles, the new energy and space must form around the old energy and space because the new energy and space cannot occupy the same region. This of course does not explain the differential in energy density from space density. The reason that energy density deacreases is because to quanta of energy that are closer to one another gain extra density. This manifested in a magnetic field for as the photons increase there distance as they stray from each other the density of the field and strength of the field decreases. The oldest energy is closer then the new energy. The increase in density decreases the density of space in the old energies region and increases the density of space in the new energies region. This creates the warping of the space-time continuum that is present in a dense grouping of energy. Got to goe
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Lara
Junior Member posted 24 January 2001 10:58
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The mulitiverse theory, basicly, is that everything that can happen, does happen. It doesn't 'decide' to split if you change history, or if two snowflakes collide or don't. The possibilities already exist.
Anyway, who's to say we have free will or thought? For all we know we could be playing a role, like mindless zombies. Not a pleasant thought, but just as possible as anything else.
I guess the big question is why? If there are infinite universes, what would the point be of their existence? If time travel is possible, it would prevent paradoxes. Is that the only reason, like some sort of self preservation mechanism?
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borgus
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 12:24
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rgrunt...
why are you so sure that the universe is expanding? the only evidence for a big bang is the doppler effect of the light from the surrounding stars and galaxies. What if this effect is caused, not by expansion, but by the pattern of light slowing down as it enters our galaxy.
It makes equal sense that if manipulation of space is possible, then space itself is a force occupied only within a galaxy. The goal would be to create a void within space equal to that outside the galaxy (where there would be no gravity.) This idea is based on a non-gravity universe, where gravity only exists within galaxies.
Therefore galaxies do not attract each other, and do not risk being hurled into a big bang. Instead they are freely floating in a nuetral environment where light can travel much faster between them.
Light then slows down as it enters the force of a galaxy and creates a pattern we see as the doppler effect.
This means that light speed is related only to the amount of galaxy force it is traveling through. If you create a void within the galaxy force, then light could travel faster, and then relative to that of course, would be time travel.
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:24
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Borgus,
I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.
regards,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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This topic is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 28, 2002 06:32
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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 11)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:25
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Borgus,
I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.
regards,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:25
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Borgus,
I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.
regards,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:26
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Borgus,
I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.
regards,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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observer1
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 01:17
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You forgot to space your sentences.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:00
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rgrunt:
You had me going in your first post. I thought it was well thought out. Well reasoned, and stimulating. Whether it is correct or not I cannot say. Maybe, maybe not.
But then you lost me again in your subsequent post(s) by bringing what you say you believe "God Says" into it.
Not sure just where "God Says" this. It ain't in the Bible anyway.
Besides, in contemplating the very existence of God one is left to ask "Who Created God"? Then if the answer is "God always was", it begs the further question, "If God COULD always have been, why not the Universe itself without the need for a God to 'create' it"?
Not that I'm Atheistic, merely Agnostic. If God exists, so be it. If not, so be it. Only one thing is for sure...Whether one BELIEVES in a God or not, has no effect whatsoever on whether there truly is or is NOT one.
Besides, I've never been one to let others make descisions for me. I can do that quite well by myself thank you. I won't dismiss God, but I'm really not sure why I need him.
Borgus:
Yes, I've heard views similar to yours before, and no offense intended, but they don't answer my question. For instance, if we extrapolate just a tad further, I could ask that if infinite universes exist, and I have no free will control over my own fate in any of them, why not just commit suicide. I'll go on in another universe, since "all things are so". I could just keep commiting suicide until I finally arrive at a life timeline where I consider EVERYTHING to be SO perfect that I stick around for a while.
But then, this line of reasoning is really pretty silly isn't it.
Naw, Multiverse is a nice cute theory that, like I said, crops up over time to explain certain paradoxes, but it has never been resolved to be provable by any evidence. Besides, as such, I see it as a cop out for side stepping the issue of Time Travel.
If Time Travel is to be solved, we have to begin to think beyond the old easy trains of thought and try to grasp that which we do not yet even understand the concept of.
We need to re-examine our old concept of what we refer to as "Time" itself.
We've exhausted the old theories. They don't work. There are no Time Machines. And PROBABLY no "parallel" Universes. Other Universes perhaps, but not Parallel Ones we have "counterparts" existing in. Can't buy it.
New thought is what is called for.
I may not be capable of it, but those who are need to focus ahead into new territory. Not hack away at the old.
Peace.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:00
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rgrunt:
You had me going in your first post. I thought it was well thought out. Well reasoned, and stimulating. Whether it is correct or not I cannot say. Maybe, maybe not.
But then you lost me again in your subsequent post(s) by bringing what you say you believe "God Says" into it.
Not sure just where "God Says" this. It ain't in the Bible anyway.
Besides, in contemplating the very existence of God one is left to ask "Who Created God"? Then if the answer is "God always was", it begs the further question, "If God COULD always have been, why not the Universe itself without the need for a God to 'create' it"?
Not that I'm Atheistic, merely Agnostic. If God exists, so be it. If not, so be it. Only one thing is for sure...Whether one BELIEVES in a God or not, has no effect whatsoever on whether there truly is or is NOT one.
Besides, I've never been one to let others make descisions for me. I can do that quite well by myself thank you. I won't dismiss God, but I'm really not sure why I need him.
Borgus:
Yes, I've heard views similar to yours before, and no offense intended, but they don't answer my question. For instance, if we extrapolate just a tad further, I could ask that if infinite universes exist, and I have no free will control over my own fate in any of them, why not just commit suicide. I'll go on in another universe, since "all things are so". I could just keep commiting suicide until I finally arrive at a life timeline where I consider EVERYTHING to be SO perfect that I stick around for a while.
But then, this line of reasoning is really pretty silly isn't it.
Naw, Multiverse is a nice cute theory that, like I said, crops up over time to explain certain paradoxes, but it has never been resolved to be provable by any evidence. Besides, as such, I see it as a cop out for side stepping the issue of Time Travel.
If Time Travel is to be solved, we have to begin to think beyond the old easy trains of thought and try to grasp that which we do not yet even understand the concept of.
We need to re-examine our old concept of what we refer to as "Time" itself.
We've exhausted the old theories. They don't work. There are no Time Machines. And PROBABLY no "parallel" Universes. Other Universes perhaps, but not Parallel Ones we have "counterparts" existing in. Can't buy it.
New thought is what is called for.
I may not be capable of it, but those who are need to focus ahead into new territory. Not hack away at the old.
Peace.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:06
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Hey Moderator.
I DID NOT post that last post twice. I did get a 505 Internal Server error on the first one tho.
I got one last night also, but it did not result in two identical postings.
(Just FYI)
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rgrunt@yahoo.com
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 09:52
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Deviper: I believe that I read that quote from revelation, but I respect your beliefs and yor right to have them. I am not here to convince anyone that God exists. I am only here to speak the truth as I know it.
I am just a vessel and god hardens whom he wants to harden and softens the hearts of whom he wants to soften. As for the qoute, it was stating that what ever God has done, said, or created can not be added to or taken away from.
A similar conspeptual logic exists in science as well, the law of conservation of energy,mass,and momentum. Even in the case where energy is borrowed from the vacuum of space there is no vialation of this in that the source of energy was gained from an existant source...space. If energy is gained from nothing; then this law is vialated.
Edwin G. Schasteen
Everyone:
I appologize for not double spacing, I was in a hurry. I also got that screen and that is why I have three of the same posts. Hmmm.
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borgus
unregistered posted 25 January 2001 12:29
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Well, I don't have much confidence in the parallel timelines (multiuniverse existance) theory of time. It makes much better sense to consider time a property of motion in the 4th dimension (axis).
But if time is indeed a 4th dimension then it is always difficult to convert that into a visual model that our brains can understand.
What if time is a property of gravity... where you fall through time at a constant rate relative to the gravity. Problem with this is that time would pass at different rates on different planets (which hasn't been proven either way).
If you imagine yourself, and everything else on Earth, falling through time. Then Newton's laws of motion would apply to time. If an object is falling through time it will continue falling until a force stops it. The force required to stop it (or accelerate it) is proportional to the velocity and mass. And there must be an equal and opposite reaction to motion through time.
Using this (fictional) model how would you stop someone from falling through time, or accelerate them away from it (back in time)?
You would need to understand the properties of the time-force, whether it is related to gravity fields, whether it is related directly to mass, or space.
Also this would delete the notion of parallel timelines. If one object were to be pushed into an acceleration away from the time force, then they would no longer exist in their previous position in relation to everything else that is falling. Once they are placed in a location behind the previous, and began to fall again at a constant rate. Would they, or not, be in the past? Would familiar objects be seen around? ..existing in a previous time? Becuase you have to visualize it as another plane of existance. so the other dimensions would be connected to it.
Like i said, its very hard to visualize the 4 dimensional properties. But perhaps the "falling" model will help.
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Time02112
Member posted 25 January 2001 17:31
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DA Viper,
as you said earlier..."Actually, in science, "Multiverse" theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn't mean it is so.
Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren't for the fact that it simply isn't true.
Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it "explains" some things. Lot's of things explain "some" things. Most of them are NOT true.
So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it's existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?
Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it's considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove "Frame Dragging" which IS an experiment under way.
But "Multiverse"? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?"
_____________________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Perhaps the following might lend some additional clues, as to "shed some light on the subject."
When engaging upon a string quartet of talented musicians, there are only two types of designations,
*Those who participate.
*Those who observe.
_____________________________________________
---------------------------------------------
NOTE:> The following posts were extracted from "Autodynamics" *Egroups Forum.
< http://www.egroups.com/group/autodynamics>
Scientists Bring Light to Full Stop, Hold It, Then Send It on Its Way
In today's New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com
(You have to register at the site to read the article).
From: Bill Slawson
Date: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:02pm
Subject: AutoDynamics ?
Douglas Scott 01/21/01
dscott@astro.ubc.ca
From: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001230.html
During the last coupla years, I have been looking at SAA, AutoDynamics in general, and the formulations of Ricardo Carezani. Sometime in 1999, I began thinking about the possible degradation of photonic energy by the theoretical picograviton. The "tired photon" hypotheses, to explain the smooth redshift variation with respect to distance/time, have a number of (surmountable) problems. But, the generally accepted solution for this smooth variation, (namely: BigBang), also has many problems.
If you would, could you supply me with your short list, in links or references, describing why you may or may not support this tired photon thinking?
Anisotropy of CMB:
In the image of the above link, I can see that there is a calico feature to the CMB. The dark patches are limited by the resolution of the scale. I wonder how far off the scale are the depths of the dark patches? Is there data available to recalibrate the image to a different, (lower), central "zero value"? Further, if one were to gather multiple images of the same patch of sky, would the calico pattern remain strictly identical? Over what period of time? The careful comparison of differing images could reveal the changes as being instrumental artifacts or actual sky change.
I wildly wonder if there may be a nominal "rest state" for photonic radiation? If, after a looong journey through "space", the photonic energies are "wound down" by being bent hither and thither through the gravitational wedges of the intergalactic medium - - then, is the result that the background has a rather even "look" to it? Is this "even" appearance some kind of undulating dispersion of photonic energies around and about the nominal "rest state" average value? Or can the true "rest state" be an equilibrium point whereby photonic energies are hardly affected and mostly unaffected by the "picograviton density fluctuations"?
Everything is natural
Bill Slawson
1621 Grand
Spencer, IA
51301-3433
712-262-1111
slawsone@ispchannel.com
(C) Copyright 2000 usual rights, usual rates
Slight reference:
AutoDynamics: http://www.flic.net/~saa/
The boundary of the "observable" universe may be only limited by the distance it takes for "most" photonic radiation to wind down to the equilibrium rest state of the microwave background radiation energy. If we can develop "graviton" apertures and detection instruments, the "observable" horizon could be extended way far.
- - p n Jones
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Trott
Member posted 25 January 2001 23:02
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What happened to page 11? I can not see it. Perhaps posting, will allow me to.
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Shadow
unregistered posted 26 January 2001 12:54
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What happened to Pamala and TT_O? They both dropped off the board at the same time.
PC crash, hanky panky?
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Shadow
unregistered posted 26 January 2001 12:55
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What happened to Pamala and TT_O? They both dropped off the board at the same time.
PC crash, hanky panky?
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 26 January 2001 13:32
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Greetings everyone. I’ve been a way for a while so I apologize for not getting back to these questions sooner.
((First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from? Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?))
After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had. There was a great deal of anger directed toward the Federal government and a revival of states rights was becoming paramount. However, in their attempt to create an economic form of government, the political and military leaders at the time decided to hold one last Constitutional Congress in order to present a psychological cohesion from the old system. During this Congress, the leaders discovered and decided that coming up with a new and better form of government was nearly impossible. The original Constitution itself was not the problem it was the ignorance of the people that lived under it.
((Second, do you not like your "new" Constitution? Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?))
From my viewpoint, it’s very effective. I am a very strong believer in local or state’s rights.
((Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon, how soon will this be?))
There are certain windows I must wait for in order to leave. There will be two this year. The first one opens this spring.
((Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you leave?))
Not with the unit I have.
((If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?))
Since everything is already happening and possible on different worldlines, the answer is yes….and no.
((Correct me if I'm wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.))
I suppose from your vantage point that’s a fair assessment. I would call myself more of a centrist. Although I understand the “gun rights” issue here, I cannot relate to it all and it is a common point of argument with my mother. I keep saying her tune will change in about ten years and she’ll be cleaning shotguns in her sleep but it doesn’t help. If it makes you feel any better, I never shot anyone who wasn’t trying to kill me.
((could you give us your thoughts on how us "less enlightened" ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?))
When you say “us”, what do you mean? Do you mean “you”? Where would you go if you had my machine? How do you think the rest of the world would react to the U.S. having a time machine and they didn’t? To tell you the truth, I more worried about the computer system than I am the distrotion unit.
((You said that you traveled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable.))
Yes, a “ZD” is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point “may” not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of “homes” that I could return to that don’t have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .002377%.
((Someone correct me where I'm wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are "created" by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.))
Parallel universes exist independently of each other and only interact to avoid the collapse of the wave function for any given particle that you are looking at. I like to imagine it as a series of parallel lines crossed by a sine wave. Each point on the sine wave where a line crosses it represents an alternate outcome. The multiple “yous” on each worldline record a different result for the activity of the event.
((Actually, in science, "Multiverse" theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn't mean it is so.))
I agree with you that an explanation doesn’t make it so. However you can build a model to describe physical behavior. Even if the model is not complete, its “truth” can be measured by how well it predicts the behavior it describes.
((So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it's existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?))
I believe the closest non-related evidence for multiple universes right now comes from the physics (derived from special relativity) of rotating (Kerr) black holes. If you examine a typical Penrose map, science agrees that you can travel to “other universes” through these cosmic oddities. They can’t be different places in our own universe because you would have to violate the speed of light limit to get there.
Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously, it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe.
There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, than physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain. Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?
According to physics, there is no reason why this cannot be true although I probably fall a little closer to DiViper’s feelings about this as he does on multiple universes.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 26 January 2001 14:06
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Greetings everyone. I’ve been a way for a while so I apologize for not getting back to these questions sooner. I've noticed this topic seems to be less than responsive when you try to post to it.
((First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from? Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?))
After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had. There was a great deal of anger directed toward the Federal government and a revival of states rights was becoming paramount. However, in their attempt to create an economic form of government, the political and military leaders at the time decided to hold one last Constitutional Congress in order to present a psychological cohesion from the old system. During this Congress, the leaders discovered and decided that coming up with a new and better form of government was nearly impossible. The original Constitution itself was not the problem it was the ignorance of the people that lived under it.
((Second, do you not like your "new" Constitution? Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?))
From my viewpoint, it’s very effective. I am a very strong believer in local or state’s rights.
((Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon, how soon will this be?))
There are certain windows I must wait for in order to leave. There will be two this year. The first one opens this spring.
((Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you leave?))
Not with the machine I have now.
((If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?))
Since everything is already happening and possible on different worldlines, the answer is yes….and no.
((Correct me if I'm wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.))
I suppose from your vantage point that’s a fair assessment. I would call myself more of a centrist. Although I understand the “gun rights” issue here, I cannot relate to it all and it is a common point of argument with my mother. I keep saying her tune will change in about ten years and she’ll be cleaning shotguns in her sleep but it doesn’t help. If it makes you feel any better, I never shot anyone who wasn’t trying to kill me.
((could you give us your thoughts on how us "less enlightened" ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?))
When you say “us”, what do you mean? Do you mean “you”? Where would you go if you had my machine? How do you think the rest of the world would react to the U.S. having a time machine and they didn’t?
((You said that you traveled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable.))
Yes, a “ZD” is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point “may” not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of “homes” that I could return to that don’t have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .0002377%.
((Someone correct me where I'm wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are "created" by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.))
Parallel universes exist independently of each other and only interact to avoid the collapse of the wave function for any given particle that you are looking at. I like to imagine it as a series of parallel lines crossed by a sine wave. Each point on the sine wave where a line crosses it represents an alternate outcome. The multiple “yous” on each worldline record a different result for the activity of the particle or event.
((Actually, in science, "Multiverse" theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn't mean it is so.))
I agree with you that an explanation doesn’t make it so. However you can build a model to describe physical behavior. Even if the model is not complete, its “truth” can be measured by how well it predicts the behavior it describes.
((So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it's existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?))
I believe the closest non-related evidence for multiple universes right now comes from the physics (derived from special relativity) of rotating (Kerr) black holes. If you examine a typical Penrose map, science agrees that you can travel to “other universes” through these cosmic oddities. They can’t be different places in our own universe because you would have to violate the speed of light limit to get there.
Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously, it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe.
There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, than physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain.
Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?
According to physics, there is no reason why this cannot be true although I probably fall a little closer to DiViper’s feelings about this as he does on multiple universes.
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pamela
Member posted 26 January 2001 19:24
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Testing>>>>>>>>>>>>
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DaViper
unregistered posted 27 January 2001 18:08
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rgrunt:
By all means please understand that I likewise respect YOUR views. Whether i agree with all of them or not. I was just rambling on about my musings on religion and would not intend to offend anyone.
I like your "conservation" law analogy.
Peace.
Borgus:
Yup. I'd say we're pretty close here. The "Frame Dragging" experiment being readied by NASA goes directly to this "gravity relativity to time" issues. Particularly as it pertains to a spinning body, in this case the Earth itself.
From what I understand so far on this, the gravitational effect on time would have the opposite (or possibly counteracting) effect of Time Dilation. For instance, the Space Shuttle's clocks run slower, but the Shuttle's position of being less influenced by gravity than an Earth bound object SHOULD make the shuttle's clocks run FASTER! Somehow, the Time Dilation effect is "winning" it's battle with gravity's (or the diminished amount of it) counteractive effect.
I don't fully understand it yet, but then I'm not sure anyone FULLY understands it. Otherwise it could be explaind precisely and predictably. So far, it can't.
I'm eager to see what develops.
Time02112:
Yes I'm familiar with the sites and the work in that area and certainly do not claim to be an expert in any of this. But...
I'm not sure what your references have to do with "multiverse" theory. Could we be comparing apples and oranges here?
Thanx for the informative tips toward them tho.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 27 January 2001 18:18
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rgrunt:
By all means please understand that I likewise respect YOUR views. Whether i agree with all of them or not. I was just rambling on about my musings on religion and would not intend to offend anyone.
I like your "conservation" law analogy.
Peace.
Borgus:
Yup. I'd say we're pretty close here. The "Frame Dragging" experiment being readied by NASA goes directly to this "gravity relativity to time" issues. Particularly as it pertains to a spinning body, in this case the Earth itself.
From what I understand so far on this, the gravitational effect on time would have the opposite (or possibly counteracting) effect of Time Dilation. For instance, the Space Shuttle's clocks run slower, but the Shuttle's position of being less influenced by gravity than an Earth bound object SHOULD make the shuttle's clocks run FASTER! Somehow, the Time Dilation effect is "winning" it's battle with gravity's (or the diminished amount of it) counteractive effect.
I don't fully understand it yet, but then I'm not sure anyone FULLY understands it. Otherwise it could be explaind precisely and predictably. So far, it can't.
I'm eager to see what develops.
Time02112:
Yes I'm familiar with the sites and the work in that area and certainly do not claim to be an expert in any of this. But...
I'm not sure what your references have to do with "multiverse" theory. Could we be comparing apples and oranges here?
Thanx for the informative tips toward them tho.
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DaViper
unregistered posted 28 January 2001 15:58
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Hmmm.
Maybe we ought to get a "Paradoxes Continued..." thread going.
It looks like the message board software is starting to honk up over the length of this one.
The last post I made never showed up tho the board said it WAS posted. The one before that posted twice tho I didn't do that.
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pamela
Member posted 10 February 2001 07:01
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testing
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pamela
Member posted 10 February 2001 07:02
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testing
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pamela
Member posted 20 February 2001 09:12
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.
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DethWind
unregistered posted 20 February 2001 22:42
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Argh i missed time traveler! I just wanted to ask him if he knew anyone in the future who was important who had the initials J.W....and if so perhaps he could name them...
heh, i made a riddle once...what clock is a clock that tells time only twice a day?
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This topic is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
All times are ET (US)
--------------------
Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 28, 2002 06:46
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People for some reason were not able to post on the thread above any longer so when John came back from his "trip" he began a new thread.
Nothing has been deleted from the threads they are in their original state when I saved them.
(excluding second half of page 9-we may have to delete something from there if Olav cant fix it. If anything is deleted I will tell you exactly what the problem was and why it was deleted and what was deleted.)
The continued thread "topics limited to 11 pages?"is still on the TTI board so I will not post it here. If for any reason it becomes permanetly unavailable it will be posted on this thread. The thread over there is locked so nothing can be added or deleted from it.
It can be found here:
This thread(topics limited to 11 pages?" is currently still on TTI by this date of posting: You will have to paste the URL in as it is a long one.
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_tra
vel&Number=9237&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
For further links to all postings by John Titor
go here:
http://www.anomalies.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000226
[ December 28, 2002, 07:02: Message edited by: Pamela ]
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Member # 15
posted December 31, 2002 19:40
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This thread is now complete.
--------------------
Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
All times are Pacific Time
Topic Closed
( source: http://www.anomalies.net/ )
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